Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

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My2Cents
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

Ice Man wrote:http://www.jvas.org/news_hot.html

Gone With The Windmills?

A Plea to President Obama to Save the National Forests of Appalachia

1,230 words by Chris Bolgiano, Mildly Amusing Nature Writer

bolgiace@jmu.edu http://www.chrisbolgiano.com

Dear President Obama:

Thanks to you, America is turning green again, nearly forty years after I went “Back to the Land” as part of the first Earth Day generation You came within twenty miles of my passive-aggressive solar homestead on Cross Mountain last October, when you spoke in Harrisonburg, Virginia.

Surely, as you flew into the Shenandoah Valley airport, you noticed to the west the long, sinuous lines of forest-covered mountains, fall colors blazing in faux fire.

A century ago you would have seen smoke billowing from real fires, caused by a rampage of steam-powered logging. Flooding caused by deforestation of the mountains became so costly by 1911 that Congress passed the Weeks Act, authorizing the U.S. Forest Service to buy land from willing sellers and repair environmental damage. Some of the highest ridges you saw when you looked westward are in national forests that were established then, along the spine of the Southern Appalachian Mountains.

These forests now face their greatest threat in a century.

Reflecting a nearly 50% nationwide increase in wind electricity plants in 2007, developers are arriving in what they themselves called “a gold rush” at a recent industry conference. There, a wind map ranked thin red currents along the highest Appalachian ridges as just possibly strong enough to power turbines for massive industrial wind installations.

Glossy ads for wind power always show turbines in open fields, never in forests. That’s because every turbine requires up to five acres of deforestation. Hundreds of turbines are being built here, burgeoning to tens of thousands if the U.S. Department of Energy indiscriminately pursues its “20% Wind Energy By 2030” program. Do the math, and factor in the forest fragmentation that multiplies the loss of habitat, and the super-wide new roads that destroy the last remote, wild ridges.

Slender, rocky ridges are blasted and bulldozed to flatten pads for turbines. Each pad requires hundreds of tons of concrete. After the 25 year life span of the huge machines, the pads remain as dead ground but possibly good tennis courts in a summer camp for giants in the future.

Deforestation is the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions after fossil fuel burning. The rest of the world agreed at the recent U.N. climate summit to protect maturing forests that sequester huge amounts of carbon dioxide -- like those now healing from old abuse in the Southern Appalachians. In Transition to Green, the 400 pages of nature tips sent you by a coalition of environmental organizations, the first recommendation for the U.S. Department of Agriculture is to “manage the national forest system to secure climate benefits.”
Industrial wind will blow this opportunity away.

It’s already blowing away a lot of wildlife. Turbine blades reach 450 feet above ridge crests where songbirds migrate, bats feed, and eagles rise on thermals. Just across the state line in West Virginia, thousands of creatures are being killed every year at new wind plants, the highest kills ever documented worldwide from turbines. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service strongly recommends against turbines on nearby Shenandoah Mountain due to the likelihood of killing endangered species, yet several projects are underway.

Some of the people living near turbines suffer from chronic sleeplessness and other symptoms of Wind Turbine Syndrome (including depression over loss of property values).

Death, destruction and insomnia are marketed to urban consumers as “green” electricity, what little there is of it. Turbines produce only about 30% or less of their maximum rated capacity, and some of that is lost along hundreds of miles of transmission lines. When the wind does blow, the aging lines can hardly handle the surge.

What drives this high-cost/low-benefit gold rush is the federal production tax credit. More tax breaks beckon in national forests, where no local property taxes are levied so local communities wouldn’t share in revenues produced by turbines, plus the Forest Service helps pay for building roads. In the three years that the federal tax credit hasn’t been reauthorized since first enacted in 1992, the skyrocketing wind industry plateaued like a mountaintop-removal coalmine.

The coal mining that has ravaged the land and people in part of Appalachia for a century is our major source of electricity, and is obscenely destructive to forests. But destroying more forests in order to stop destroying forests doesn’t make sense. And building industrial wind plants in Appalachia isn’t change. It’s a 21st century version of the same old pattern of taking value out and leaving costs behind.

These ancient mountains are well-documented as the biologically richest temperate woodlands in the world, one of North America’s greatest natural treasures, rich in globally rare species and communities, including human ones. So you can’t dismiss my aging hippie protest merely as NIMBY, which in any case is simply love of place. It breaks my heart to see these murdered old mountains assaulted again.

Since 1911, the Forest Service has salvaged the land and regenerated trees in watersheds that, today, supply drinking water to millions of people (not to mention clean air). Tens of millions of people depend on these national forests for access to the outdoors, spending in local economies as they go. Timber from regulated harvests supports local companies.

National forests are the last vestige of the rural commons, where, as you noted in a recent speech, “the proud tradition of hunting is passed on through the generations.” Deer eat my flowers and I eat the deer in an Appalachian adaptation of flower power.

No flowers bloom now; the mountain forests you saw in autumn glory are bark naked and blue with winter cold. Warmed by firewood from my hundred acres of oaks, I’m writing you on a computer plugged into nine solar panels that power my house. I believe in green energy so much that I’ve started a new savings fund to buy one of those million plug-in hybrid cars that you’ve promised to get on the road by 2015.

Industrial wind power has a place, and T. Boone Pickens knows exactly where that is: On the plains, where winds are incessant. Other potentially low impact sites are mid-western cropfields, eastern strip mines, and off-shore waters, much closer to the coastal cities that need the power.

But in forested rural areas like Appalachia, community-scale rather than industrial-scale would better contribute to your goal of 10% of our electricity from renewable sources by 2012. Solar panels and small wind turbines have enormous potential for on-site, small-scale power generation, with hardly a ripple on the grid.

Consider how much stronger our nation would be against disasters both natural and criminal if schools, hospitals, community centers, businesses, nursing homes, farms, houses and apartment buildings across the country made enough electricity to pump drinking water and refrigerate food.

Americans haven’t enjoyed that kind of independence since they drank from dippers and packed pond ice in sawdust for the summer icebox. The decentralization of electricity represents a new perspective on the old rallying cry of democracy, “Power to the People!”

Can’t we make some of that $150 billion you want to invest in “building a clean energy future” available to ordinary people, small businesses and neighborhoods, as well as distant corporations? And can’t we keep our national forests intact for future generations?
My hope for change is that you will answer, “Yes We Can!”

Yours in the Red, White, and Blue Ridge,
Chris Bolgiano

P.S. Please see below for supporting documents.

Chris Bolgiano, on her deck beneath rooftop solar panels, is the author of five books, innumerable articles, and one short history of a small place -- her own community.

Supporting Documents
(A Very Few of Very, Very Many)

Arnett, E.B., et al. 2007. Impacts of wind energy facilities on wildlife and wildlife habitat. Wildlife Society Technical Review 07-2. Bethesday, MD: The Wildlife Society. The Wildlife Society is a national association of natural resource managers.

National Library of Medicine. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/ Pubmed and Environmental Health and Toxicology databases (approx. 30 other citations available):
- Harding, G. et al. Wind turbines, flicker, and photosensitive epilepsy: characterizing the flashing that may precipitate seizures and optimizing guidelines to prevent them. Epilepsia. 2008 Jun;49(6):1095-8.
- Findeis, H. and E. Peters. Disturbing effects of low frequency sound immissions (sic) and vibrations in residential buildings. Noise Health. 2004 Apr-Jun;6(23):29-35.
- Pedersen, E. Wind turbine noise, annoyance & self-reported health and well-being in different living environments. Occup. Environ. Med. 2007 Jul;64(7):480-6.

National Research Council of the National Academies. Environmental Impacts of Wind-Energy Projects. 2007. Washington, D.C.: The National Academies Press. http://www.nap.edu

Pierpont, Nina. Wind Turbine Syndrome: a Report on a Natural Experiment. In publication. Excerpts at http://www.windturbinesyndrome.com/.

Transition to Green: Environmental Transition Recommendations for the Obama Administration. Nov. 2008. docs.nrdc.org/legislation/leg_08112401.asp

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Elkins, West Virginia Field Office. November 16, 2007. 12 page letter “Re: Proposed Construction and Operation of a Wind Power Facility, In Pendleton and Hardy Counties, WV.” vawind.org/Assets/Docs/USFWS-111607.pdf

Please see also http://www.vawind.org for extensive further coverage of wind power issues in eastern forested areas. See also http://www.windaction.org, http://www.nationalwind.org/, http://www.stopillwind and hundreds of other sites for the worldwide grass-roots struggle to make industrial wind responsive to environmental and human health concerns
This post, by Ice Man, is absolutely fantastic !! Please take time to read it and visit the all the web links contained within it.... very, very, informative indeed.
One of the web sites mentioned above; http://www.windturbinesyndrome.com/ contains a few video's... when you get a chance, please take time to go thru each video. This is what people, who are still in doubt, need to hear and see.
Once again... Thank-you IceMan. :mrgreen:
My2Cents
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

P.S. I am still reading all that is included with Ice Mans post above. One thing that is becoming very, very, noticable... people, not just in our area, but, throughout the world, are starting to pay more and more attention to the destructivness that is going on before their very eyes. Leases were signed, the trees came down, and up they went !! People did not have time to consider the potential consequences to their very own living enviroment. People were made to think that their neck-of-the-woods would be doing its part for clean energy... the rush was on !!!
With patience and time, the world will find a means of clean energy for us all to share. Rusty, 30 year old turbines, sitting atop Ice Mountain, each filled with 200 gallons of oil (that's if it isn't leaking out, as some has been known to do), will be a potential problem and eyesore for our future generations. Weather patterns will likely change and that area, overtime, most likely will become devastated.... not to mention the huge risk we would be taking to our watershed.
At this point, I can't imagine our council turning it's decision around. So far, so good folks.... keep the faith. :flag:
Ms. Muffet
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Ms. Muffet »

My2Cents wrote:Sorry Ms. Muffet, I have to disagree completely with the "windterra" theory.... they are for tall buildings in big cities where they can hardly be seen.
Having turbines on Ice Mountain is bad enough !!!
Those distracting "windterra" things are just what we need spinning around on our downtown rooftops !!! Pleeeeeze :eek:.
P.S. Thanks for the great info above Ice Man !!!
Actually My2Cents, windterra makes a turbine specifically for residential purposes that mounts on the rooftop. I will admit, with all the hills I don't know how hard the wind blows as I have never lived here. However, as long as the wind blows it doesn't matter which direction it is from because it is a vertical axis wind turbine and only needs 6 mph wind to work. They would need to be mounted on each house to cut electricity production for the city. However, the residents would each directly reap the benefits....as long as the wind blows 6mph or more.
My2Cents
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

Gotcha'.... still, there has to be a better way.... wind is not very dependable.
Last edited by My2Cents on Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Something to say
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Something to say »

:roll: lol
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Something to say »

Ms. Muffet wrote:
My2Cents wrote:Sorry Ms. Muffet, I have to disagree completely with the "windterra" theory.... they are for tall buildings in big cities where they can hardly be seen.
Having turbines on Ice Mountain is bad enough !!!
Those distracting "windterra" things are just what we need spinning around on our downtown rooftops !!! Pleeeeeze :eek:.
P.S. Thanks for the great info above Ice Man !!!
Actually My2Cents, windterra makes a turbine specifically for residential purposes that mounts on the rooftop. I will admit, with all the hills I don't know how hard the wind blows as I have never lived here. However, as long as the wind blows it doesn't matter which direction it is from because it is a vertical axis wind turbine and only needs 6 mph wind to work. They would need to be mounted on each house to cut electricity production for the city. However, the residents would each directly reap the benefits....as long as the wind blows 6mph or more.

I just can't help but wonder.....what if people actually conserved? Yanno....spent one night a week eating by candlelight...turning off the lights....turning off the televisions, the computers, hanging clothes outside or on racks in their homes...What if EACH and EVERY family practiced CONSERVATION.....even just one day a week. What if people that could...walked instead of driving 4 blocks each time they went to the store. What if people sent their kids outside instead of allowing them to sit in front of a screen each evening? Instead of conserving....we just want to add more and more and more so we can have more and more and more. What if all stores observed Sunday as they used to and only convenience stores remained open for emergencies?

On my way to the doctor last week... I noticed something which was kind of sad....ALL THIS SNOW.......and I have not seen one child outside playing in it.....When is the last time you noticed a SNOWMAN in a yard anywhere????? Maybe I'm older than I want to admit, but I remember how excited we would be if the snow started falling and we were getting an early dismissal from school...( which was rare I might add ...not the snow, but the early dismissal ) ......I couldn't wait to get home-- put on my snowboots and grab my sled and head for the hill. :fogey:
Ms. Muffet
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Ms. Muffet »

Something to say wrote:
Ms. Muffet wrote:
My2Cents wrote:Sorry Ms. Muffet, I have to disagree completely with the "windterra" theory.... they are for tall buildings in big cities where they can hardly be seen.
Having turbines on Ice Mountain is bad enough !!!
Those distracting "windterra" things are just what we need spinning around on our downtown rooftops !!! Pleeeeeze :eek:.
P.S. Thanks for the great info above Ice Man !!!
Actually My2Cents, windterra makes a turbine specifically for residential purposes that mounts on the rooftop. I will admit, with all the hills I don't know how hard the wind blows as I have never lived here. However, as long as the wind blows it doesn't matter which direction it is from because it is a vertical axis wind turbine and only needs 6 mph wind to work. They would need to be mounted on each house to cut electricity production for the city. However, the residents would each directly reap the benefits....as long as the wind blows 6mph or more.

I just can't help but wonder.....what if people actually conserved? Yanno....spent one night a week eating by candlelight...turning off the lights....turning off the televisions, the computers, hanging clothes outside or on racks in their homes...What if EACH and EVERY family practiced CONSERVATION.....even just one day a week. What if people that could...walked instead of driving 4 blocks each time they went to the store. What if people sent their kids outside instead of allowing them to sit in front of a screen each evening? Instead of conserving....we just want to add more and more and more so we can have more and more and more. What if all stores observed Sunday as they used to and only convenience stores remained open for emergencies?

On my way to the doctor last week... I noticed something which was kind of sad....ALL THIS SNOW.......and I have not seen one child outside playing in it.....When is the last time you noticed a SNOWMAN in a yard anywhere????? Maybe I'm older than I want to admit, but I remember how excited we would be if the snow started falling and we were getting an early dismissal from school...( which was rare I might add ...not the snow, but the early dismissal ) ......I couldn't wait to get home-- put on my snowboots and grab my sled and head for the hill. :fogey:
I really realized I was out of shape when I went sledding with my kids this winter....I could only make it up the hill about 8 times before I was exhausted. That is one reason I am looking forward to moving to a small town again. We don't have sidewalks here, so I feel terrified taking my kids on walks over here. At least I will have hills to hike over there, and hopefully a little more sun than we get here in Germany. And a yard so that my kids can go outside and play. I would do that more often over here, but we pretty much have a hill that is too steep to climb....unless your crawling....for our tiny back yard. Though we are lucky to have that.

They do walk a lot over here, they don't have AC in any house that I have ever been in. Electricity is outrageous, which is why they conserve so much. And they are closed on Sundays. I love this because you are pretty much guaranteed to at least have one day a week with family. Yes, conserving is great, but how do you get people to do it? Charge extra once people use more than a specified amount every month? I don't know. Anybody have any ideas?
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Guy Fawkes
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Guy Fawkes »

What is the opinions of the Ice Mountain Protectors on the private land owner placing a eight foot high game fence around their 800 acres of Ice Mountain, where was the outcry over the fragmentation of Ice Mountian on this issue. Now for most of you it's no big deal because the birds and bats can fly over the fence, but the animals that are stuck firmly on terra firma this could end up an biological disaster for Ice Mountain and the surrounding area. That scar down the face of the mountain is just as much an eyesore to me as the windmiills to others in the community. If you are going to protect Ice Mountain do it for all land owners and not just the ones that you can grandstand at public meetings.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by SoccerMom »

"They do walk a lot over here, they don't have AC in any house that I have ever been in. Electricity is outrageous, which is why they conserve so much. And they are closed on Sundays. I love this because you are pretty much guaranteed to at least have one day a week with family. Yes, conserving is great, but how do you get people to do it? Charge extra once people use more than a specified amount every month? I don't know. Anybody have any ideas?"

Conserving energy may be made much easier by the introduction of "smart meters" that will replace our old electric meters. Electronic signals smart meters will be transmitted back to the utility company on the same lines that distribute the electricity, eliminating the need for meter readers. These smart meters will provide information concerning how and when electricity is being used. We'll be able to use this data to develop demand management programs that can lead to significant monthly cost reductions for electricity.

In addition, each customer will have the choice of the flat rate price for electricity, which is the system currently being used; time of day rates with an on-peak rate and an off-peak rate; or hour-by-hour pricing of electricity. If you choose the time of day or hour-by-hour pricing, you will receive an e-mail or FAX each day informing you what the rates will be for the following day. Then you would be able to make an informed decision regarding how and when you use electricity that day. For example, you may decide to do those loads of laundry early in the morning instead of the evening, when rates would be more expensive. I don't know when it is, but PA and other states will be required to have these installed in all homes and businesses. I imagine it won't be too long after the rate caps expire, when energy prices are projected to double or triple.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

SoccerMom; I can see the above scenerio working as long as everyone gets their fair share. There are so many "what if's" in that though. If you get and/or pay enough for electricity in order to do laundry on Tuesday.... what if, for some reason, you don't get to do your laundry on Tuesday?? Or, what if Friday comes along, you still haven't done your laundry, and you have to get it done now because you're leaving Saturday for vacation ?? Also, you're going to have people that don't know how to do, or forget to do, whatever you have to do the day before, in order to get what they want the next day. :?
Maybe I'm not seeing this accurately, I just find it hard to imagine... yet, sad to think that "somebody" out there is going to control how and when we use our electricity. Sounds like they are grasping at straws. It will cost a fortune to set up, and operate, something like this. Still, it will not be the answer to clean energy. Still, our utilitiy bills will increase, and increase, and increase.... no matter what they do. When are they going to stop this money making crap and realize that we would be sooooo much better off by going nuclear with solars thrown in somewhere ?? A lot of research is being done right now as far as "solar" goes..... we all need is patience until they work it out. The biggest setback with solar is trying to figure out how to store it. They already have a satellite up there that can beam it back to earth... all they have to do is figure out what to do with the "extras." This is something that could be used throughout the world...... once established, it would cost everyone very, very, little.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

Ms.Muffet; Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy, every moment you are there.... go as many places as you can. Germany is a beautiful country.
Be thankful that you were able to get away from "Dodge" for a while and see that there really is a world out there.
Someday, you will look back on all that and be glad that you were able to have had the experience.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by SoccerMom »

My2Cents, with smart meters, no one is controlling your energy use. They are simply providing you information so you can decide if you would rather do that load of laundry now, and pay the higher rate, or wait until morning to save some money. It's a concept similar to cell phones. Wait until after 9 p.m. to make that call to mom and save $$$ due to off-peak rates.

Anyway, I'm totally with you on the solar and nuclear energy. First things first though, get a home energy audit to make sure your attic and walls are properly insulated, windows and doors are tight, vents are clean, and make sure heating and cooling systems are inspected once a year. Then look into some other cost saving options, such as solar, and start with something like a solar water heater. You can save up to 70 percent of your water heating costs, and if you need a new one anyway, its probably the way to go.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

Oh, I see... THANK YOU SoccerMom !! Now, it makes sense to me. I read your post above too quickly and missed the significance of the 2nd paragraph..... sorry, I jumped too soon with my response :oops: . With all that said, I think all that you have mentioned above is a fantastic idea !!!
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Ice Man »

Guy Fawkes wrote:What is the opinions of the Ice Mountain Protectors on the private land owner placing a eight foot high game fence around their 800 acres of Ice Mountain, where was the outcry over the fragmentation of Ice Mountian on this issue. Now for most of you it's no big deal because the birds and bats can fly over the fence, but the animals that are stuck firmly on terra firma this could end up an biological disaster for Ice Mountain and the surrounding area. That scar down the face of the mountain is just as much an eyesore to me as the windmiills to others in the community. If you are going to protect Ice Mountain do it for all land owners and not just the ones that you can grandstand at public meetings.
I agree with you about the fence, but it is insignificant when compared with 14 miles of heavy duty roadway connecting 25 400-foot-tall wind turbines, substations, transmission lines, accessory buildings, etc. Because SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN is a volunteer organization, we have to pick our battles carefully. All of us have jobs and family responsibilities. Unlike Gamesa reps, we are not being paid to "grandstand" at public meetings. None of us gets any direct benefit from our activities regarding Ice Mountain.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by salaman »

Cathedral Rocks Wind Farm turbine fire
A $6 million wind turbine has caught fire near Port Lincoln, starting blazes on the ground as embers fall. The fire, at the Cathedral Rocks Wind Farm about 30km southwest of the town, was first noticed by a boat about 1am.
February 2, 2009 in Adelaide Now
A $6 million wind turbine has caught fire near Port Lincoln, starting blazes on the ground as embers fall.

The fire, at the Cathedral Rocks Wind Farm about 30km southwest of the town, was first noticed by a boat about 1am.

The turbine is alight halfway up its 60m structure, making it difficult for the 14 Country Fire Service firefighters trying to deal with it to extinguish the blaze.

They are also busy controlling the spotfires, but consider the situation to be safe.

The cause of the blaze is as yet unknown.
Web link: http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/stor ... 01,00.html"
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