Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

[My2Cents]

Cobra... I understand all that you are saying and appreciate the fact that you listen to both sides of the story. Please consider the fact that even if you do go up to Blue Knob to "listen" again, you may still not hear anything. You have to live around these things 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, to understand what these individuals are talking about. Yes, sometimes these things are not moving, and/or moving slowly, and/or doing anything. If you live/work out in Decker Hollow, there is no way you can tell right now how these things are going to totally effect you... but, please keep in mind somehow, someway, they will.... and NOT for the betterment of things. Example; approx 7-8 years ago, a huge storm blew thru here, (think it was Ivan, not sure) both sides of Decker Hollow road was like a river. Same was true for the other nearby Hollows. As you go out there now, look at the ditches on both sides of the road where the water has run after rain storms. Now, this is with trees still up there on those ridge tops... those trees protect you folks down there in the hollows more than most folks realize. It never ceases to amaze me how so much is taken for granted around here. Can you imagine the damage that would have ensued had those ridge tops been cleared away of trees the day that storm blew thru here ?? There has been several storms since, none quite as bad, (thank goodness) but still, those ridge tops are protecting you.
If this wind mill company is allowed to come thru here... that whole area will be devistated. Aside from everything else, the weather patterns will change... there will not be any trees on that ridgetop to protect you as they do now. Not only that, but, these things are prone to lightning strikes which in turn could cause forest fires. These things have been known to "blow-up" and throw oil. These things have been known to accumulate ice, throw ice, and throw broken blades.
If you go into that gamessa site being advertised on the front page of this form... click on the "media" area and go thru some of those sites, I forget which one has the map of the area where they plan to put these things. There is an outline around the area depicting their "assumed" noise levels. To me it looks like an outa' tune orchestra on stage that is about to play for all you folks out in the audience. Do you know who the guest of honor is ?? Mother Nature. Cobra, if you value your peace and quietness out there in the hollows... if you value your landscape, your water and all else that is at risk here... please consider a "No" for these monstrosities.Just My2Cents.

[My2Cents]

The following site is a very interesting read. These people "saved" a lot of forestry, etc. in the eastern part of our state. Check out the article, " 2,500 Acres of PA Forestland protected" and also the article in the center of the page (where the red fox is) titled, "Go Zero." This organization has done wonders, I wonder if they could possibly help this area ??

http://www.conservationfund.org/
also;
http://www.conservationfund.org/node/768

[My2Cents]

I won't touch this one with a ten foot pole.. however, if anyone is interested at all, do a search on silk milk vs wal mart or other searches concerning the subject.... very interesting.

[Ice Man]

IceMan - I totally stand by my comment about the Wind Turbines and the noise they are producing, but I truly believe that it is a unique installation where Mr. Chappell and Dr. Stull live.

This noise problem exists at every windplant in the world and is worse in hilly topography. This issue was discussed ad nauseam many pages ago.

I think that that was just down and out bad sitting without the consideration of how the configuration would affect those directly down that hollow.

During the WRTA windplant forum a few weeks ago, Gamesa's Tim Vought stated that Gamesa had performed extensive sound studies prior to siting the turbines at the Allegheny Ridge Wind Plant.

[Ice Man]

Cobra, if you value your peace and quietness out there in the hollows... if you value your landscape, your water and all else that is at risk here... please consider a "No" for these monstrosities.Just My2Cents.

Since Cobra lives in Decker Hollow, he won't be participating in the poll on April 22, which is open only to borough residents.

[Ice Man]

Ice man I didnt attend the public forum didnt see any point because I read this thread every couple of days and between you sandstone and a couple of others post I say most of the things covered there are on here besides I run my own business and cant always take time out because i work alot of evenings .

None of the people who post on this site made presentations at the forum. Sandstone was to make a presentation, but he was contacted by people living near the Allegheny Ridge Wind Farm who wanted to share their experiences with the people of Tyrone. SS gave up his time so that those people could convey their first-hand long-term experiences to those attending the forum. The other presenters were an award-winning environmental educator who founded Save Our Allegheny Ridges, a professional ornithologist who is an expert in hawk and eagle migration, and a wind energy expert and professional ecologist. SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN worked hard to bring these people in to Tyrone to give expert testimony, so it's a shame that some concerned people missed these outstanding presentations.

Second of all I think the people who live closest to the windmills are the most important issue then you should take in account the other issues in that order

Borough Council thinks that the opinion of borough residents is paramount.

Third as I said I read alot of things but dont like to be force fed your opinion.Let me make up my own mind.It seems that if someone trys to be objective about this you get real defensive,you are invovled for your own reasons, I understand . Also yes I've hunted hiked and even 4 wheeled and rode snow mobiles up there before it was illegal. I even camped up at the head of sink run with my sons when they were younger, unforgetable weekend.The wind is very strong as I said I can attest to that. You got to remember you live in the USA everyone is entitled their opinion not always the right one but dont hate them for it, the world would be a boring place if we all thought alike

Ice Mountain will be an ugly place if it's developed into an industrial windplant. That's what people will see towering above town as they drive by.

[Bill Latchford]

Ice Mountain will be an ugly place if it's developed into an industrial windplant. That's what people will see towering above town as they drive by.

Ice Mountain may look pretty from afar, but when I was up a couple months ago, I saw trash along it's roads...Old Tires, Christmas trees (with some decorations), old hay bails....I agree that it might look fine from far away, but it would be nice if the wind plant does not go through, that maybe "Save Ice Mountain" might organize a cleanup of Ice Mountain. If you are going to protect it from a Wind Developer, then it should also be protected from other pollutants.

[80cobra]

Ice man if you would have read my post a little closer it said I lived up Decker Hollow that was 26 years ago. I live in Tyrone now but I still work up that hollow, have for seventeen years. As far as Ice mountain goes only about half of the windmills are to go there the rest will be above Decker Hollow and the other side of the Vanscoyc creek above the Alehgehny hunting camp. I already looked at the map on the Gamesa site. To me the noise issue ,if there is any, i dont know, is what concerns me most i have relatives who live out there.Call me harsh but I could care less about the bats, and i havent seen many eagles flying around up there, only alot of hawks. They are mostly flying around when something deads around. Another thing that concerns me is if they do put the wind mills in what is the council going to do with the money they get from them? Will they put it to good use, or just p*ss it away on something that Tyrone does'nt need.$100000 a year is alot of money,is it worth it ,I dont know.Bill tell us how the council may put the money to good use if it were to go through. M2C appreciate your opinion in your last post and respect your feelings on the matter.

[Bill Latchford]

Bill tell us how the council may put the money to good use if it were to go through

80Cobra - It has not been discussed in any depth at all, except for our forester stating that some monies can go back into the mountain to help make it healthier and that. I know I would certainly entertain anyone's thoughts on the matter. When you really think about it, the money really belongs to the community, the tax payers of Tyrone. I would love to hear what they would like to see happen with the money. I would hope that if the lease goes through that the people of town would be interested in giving Council ideas of what they would like to see done with the proceeds from such a lease. I for one believe that if the funds are use appropriately that we should be able to keep from having any major tax hikes for a while. I know I had mentioned that I would like to help out the residents of the Borough by offering some sort of sewer bill rebate if there is a major rate increase due to the Chesapeake Bay Tributary Plan. I think it hasn't been talked about much because Council is still up in the air on its' decision of whether to allow the lease or not. I want the monies to go into things the whole community can benefit from.

[Ice Man]

Call me harsh but I could care less about the bats, and i havent seen many eagles flying around up there, only alot of hawks.

http://www.aviary.org/csrv/staticGolden.php

[Ice Man]

To me the noise issue ,if there is any, i dont know, is what concerns me most i have relatives who live out there.

PM InMyBackYard and she'll tell you about the noise issue. She lives near the Alleghey Ridge Wind Farm. She can also give you the contact info for many other families who are being harmed by the noise of the Allegheny Ridge Wind Farm.

At the Gamesa Open House at the Tyrone Senior Center last December Gamesa Atlantic Director of Development Ellen Lutz told concerned listeners that the noise problem at the Allegheny Ridge Wind Farm would be corrected within 48 hours. That was 4 months ago.

Ellen Lutz recently left Gamesa for greener pastures. The Gamesa Atlantic Director of Development position is vacant. Anyone can apply.

[Ice Man]

Ice Mountain will be an ugly place if it's developed into an industrial windplant. That's what people will see towering above town as they drive by.

Ice Mountain may look pretty from afar, but when I was up a couple months ago, I saw trash along it's roads...Old Tires, Christmas trees (with some decorations), old hay bails....I agree that it might look fine from far away, but it would be nice if the wind plant does not go through, that maybe "Save Ice Mountain" might organize a cleanup of Ice Mountain. If you are going to protect it from a Wind Developer, then it should also be protected from other pollutants.

The proposed development of an industrial windplant on Ice Mountain is the greatest threat that has ever been faced in our watershed.

Trash along Hoover Road is deposited by ignorant people and will get worse if Gamesa's proposed extensive road network is built.

I'm curious as to why snowmobiles and ATVs aren't allowed in the watershed, as described in a post above by Cobra, yet extensive road networks for turbine maintenance, excavation for turbine pads, long transmission line corridors, substations, and 400-foot-tall industrial wind turbines (each containing ~200 gallons of oil!) are being considered for the watershed!

[Bill Latchford]

Trash along Hoover Road is deposited by ignorant people and will get worse if Gamesa's proposed extensive road network is built.

- Just because ignorant people deposit their trash along this road and this mountain it doesn't mean a group can not organize to clean it up. I just thought this is another aspect to "Save Ice Mountain" that could be sustainable. Why should it stop at Wind Turbines? The mountain needs some work and I would certainly hope that "Save Ice Mountain" will step up to the plate. Nothing is stronger than an organized group for a cause. Look at unions... Whether or not the Turbines go in or not I would think that all the people that utilize it for recreation and what not would be interested it trying to clean it up. Even if the Wind Plant goes in, the mountain can still be used for most of what it is used for now. People can still walk up there or hike up there. I believe for as many people that say that they would not walk among the Turbines there are that many that would. I know I would be up there more often. For one it would feel safer. I believe it could be cleaner also. It would be a great area for GeoCaching too. "Trash In Trash Out"

[My2Cents]

If there is trash up there, which I'm not doubting that there isn't, it didn't happen overnight and it needs cleaned up !! Why did it accumulate so long ?? It certainly isn't going to be cleaned up by a wind mill company... they will bury it, or shove it off to the side if anything. People who care, do things for our community in more ways than one... for an example, the river banks around our area... look what the Little Juniata River Association has been doing around this area... they have taken the initiative to organize a group and clean up our river banks. If they were not doing this year after year... who would be ?? Imagine, what that area would look like if it were not for them. I haven't noticed, but, I hope they are getting some kind of recognition for doing so.
The money !!?? What to do with the monies received ??!! This company is already telling us what we can do with it... it's going to turn around and go right back into the state and from there to the Chesapeak Bay. We will see very, very little from the money (maybe in the beginning they will make a big to-do about something just to get attention). Keep a few things in mind.... these wind mills will not be generating electricity for our town AND electric bills will not come down they will increase.

[Bill Latchford]

If there is trash up there, which I'm not doubting that there isn't, it didn't happen overnight and it needs cleaned up !! Why did it accumulate so long ?? It certainly isn't going to be cleaned up by a wind mill company... they will bury it, or shove it off to the side if anything. People who care, do things for our community in more ways than one... for an example, the river banks around our area... look what the Little Juniata River Association has been doing around this area... they have taken the initiative to organize a group and clean up our river banks. If they were not doing this year after year... who would be ?? Imagine, what that area would look like if it were not for them. I haven't noticed, but, I hope they are getting some kind of recognition for doing so.
The money !!?? What to do with the monies received ??!! This company is already telling us what we can do with it... it's going to turn around and go right back into the state and from there to the Chesapeak Bay. We will see very, very little from the money (maybe in the beginning they will make a big to-do about something just to get attention). Keep a few things in mind.... these wind mills will not be generating electricity for our town AND electric bills will not come down they will increase.

- That is why I mentioned the Organized group of "Save Ice Mountain" It appears to be a great foundation for this purpose. Just like the Little Juniata River Association. You took a group of people who are passionate about the river and they do what they can to keep it a great resource for all to enjoy. So why not have this be part of "Save Ice Mountain"?
Back to the monies...If Council has no idea of how the monies would be used from the proceeds of the lease then how do you? Oh yes and guess what, everyone's electric bill is going up, it is not selective, it is across the board. If you want to save on your electricity bill start implementing conservation and alternative energies into your personal home. Know one has said that Wind Energy is the answer...Just in my opinion the only real answer is personal conservation. If all goes through on what is being pushed through the House right now, Pa. will join with other states at implementing a rebate plan for those "Individuals" who utilize / install alternatives in their homes. Possibly up to a 50% rebate on these types of home improvements.