Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

[Bill Latchford]

Have a good one all and enjoy the beautiful weather we get to actually see this Holiday Weekend.

[Ice Man]

It's not possible to respect the status of Ice Mountain as a unique Blair County Natural Heritage Area of exceptional conservation value and then vote YES to a project that would carve it up with miles of new heavy-duty roadway, large transmission line corridors, substations, clearings for industrial wind turbines, as well as dominate the mountain with gargantuan turbines. That kind of development is inconsistent with the Blair County Natural Heritage Area designation which has been given to Ice Mountain. It is also inconsistent with the Borough of Tyrone's stewardship obligations over this area. You can't have your cake and eat it too!

I wonder how many Tyrone Borough Council members even know of the existence of the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory. Copies were delivered to all municipalities in 2006. Municipalities such as Antis Township, Frankstown Township, Logan Township, and Tyrone Township prohibit industrial windplant development in Blair County Natural Heritage Areas. The Bedford County Planning Commission's model windplant ordinance prohibits industrial windplants in Bedford County Natural Heritage Areas. What will Snyder Township do? Stay tuned!

[Ice Man]

You stated repeatedly that you do not value our natural heritage. You went so far as to state that there is nothing unique or of exceptional conservation value about Ice Mountain. With those words you show your enormous disrespect for the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory. That Inventory was done by professional ecologists working for the Blair County Planning Commission.

I have not once questioned the validity of the Natural Heritage Inventory. If you have that quote somewhere I would certainly love to see it.

Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines
by Ice Man on Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:24 pm

Bill Latchford wrote:

"I personally find nothing "Unique" and "Exceptional" about that mountain."

The operative word there is "I” I don't see a question there...It is a statement about my personal thoughts of that mountain.

Clintonesque doublespeak. It depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

[stapnir]

Hello,

I have a question for Tyrone's mayor, Town Council members, and anyone who does long-term planning for the town and decides how town revenues will be spent.

From reading this thread, I've learned that leasing Ice Mountain to Gamesa will provide Tyrone with $100,000.00 per year for 30 years = $3 million. Adjusted for 4% per year inflation (which is a bit optimistic), the real value, over 30 years, will be around $1.9 million in today's dollars.

What is Tyrone's business plan for using the windmill lease money? Parts of Tyrone, such as Main Street, literally cry out for immediate help. How will the fees from Gamesa be used to address Tyrone's problems, and how do those planned improvements stack up against what the natural beauty of Ice Mountain will be worth to the town for the next 100 + years?

Thank you for addressing my questions.

[sammie]

Hello,

I have a question for Tyrone's mayor, Town Council members, and anyone who does long-term planning for the town and decides how town revenues will be spent.

From reading this thread, I've learned that leasing Ice Mountain to Gamesa will provide Tyrone with $100,000.00 per year for 30 years = $3 million. Adjusted for 4% per year inflation (which is a bit optimistic), the real value, over 30 years, will be around $1.9 million in today's dollars.

What is Tyrone's business plan for using the windmill lease money? Parts of Tyrone, such as Main Street, literally cry out for immediate help. How will the fees from Gamesa be used to address Tyrone's problems, and how do those planned improvements stack up against what the natural beauty of Ice Mountain will be worth to the town for the next 100 + years?

Thank you for addressing my questions.

Sorry, but I am not the mayor, etc. Just wanted to say that I believe that local leaders who take steps to preserve the natural beauty of their communties will be setting the foundation for a place that will be thriving in the future. Amazing how aesthetics gets no respect.

[Bill Latchford]

Hello,

I have a question for Tyrone's mayor, Town Council members, and anyone who does long-term planning for the town and decides how town revenues will be spent.

From reading this thread, I've learned that leasing Ice Mountain to Gamesa will provide Tyrone with $100,000.00 per year for 30 years = $3 million. Adjusted for 4% per year inflation (which is a bit optimistic), the real value, over 30 years, will be around $1.9 million in today's dollars.

What is Tyrone's business plan for using the windmill lease money? Parts of Tyrone, such as Main Street, literally cry out for immediate help. How will the fees from Gamesa be used to address Tyrone's problems, and how do those planned improvements stack up against what the natural beauty of Ice Mountain will be worth to the town for the next 100 + years?

Thank you for addressing my questions.

Hello Stapnir and welcome - If the lease progresses to the point of signing then my hope would be to give the public a say in how the proceeds from the lease be spent on their community. I am not exactly sure how that would work, but am willing to work on a way to do it. Not exactly sure what you mean by "literally cry for help", but maybe you mean some of the buildings in the downtown area. You can thank the wonderful landlords for that mess. We have a new code enforcement officer that is doing everything in the Borough's power to address those eye sores. You still have to fight these things in the court system. But I certainly would have no problem using some of the proceeds to rip a few down here and there. The streetscape program has done a great deal to pep up our downtown. If we use the proceeds from the lease wisely, I would assume we could expand the Homes Program that provides low to moderate income person’s monies to fix up homes through out the community. The list could go on, since this is monies that are unbudgeted at this point, I know if it goes through I will not approve the use of these funds on anything frivolous. We need to do what we can so that the people see a benefit from this lease and not just a piece of paper. I really don't think I have addressed your question thoroughly, but there are many uncertainties at this point to consider any plan at this point. We will see after a vote is taken and then if passed more discussion on the topic can be realized. I am sure if the lease is passed and signed I will start a new thread to discuss and listen to input to how the funds could possibly be used. Take Care and thank you for your interest in this topic. Bill Latchford (Borough Council Vice President)

[Something to say]

According to Stapnir..."From reading this thread, I've learned that leasing Ice Mountain to Gamesa will provide Tyrone with $100,000.00 per year for 30 years = $3 million. Adjusted for 4% per year inflation (which is a bit optimistic), the real value, over 30 years, will be around $1.9 million in today's dollars. "

I believe Stapnir to be correct in his calculations. I also believe that some don't understand the value of a dollar.

Let's see:

1. ( I ) certainly would have no problem using some of the proceeds to rip a few down here and there ( buildings).
2. ( I ) would assume we could expand the Homes Program that provides low to moderate income person’s monies to fix up homes through out the community.
3. From a prior post...It's been suggested some of the money may be used toward the flood control project.
4. Also that some of the money could help curtail the increases in sewage bills townsfolk will have to suffer...
( not sure how that will work )

1.9 mil over a 30 yr period taking inflation into consideration. We sho nuff is gwanna do lots of stuff wif all dat dere monies.

The very fact that we are already thinking how we're gonna spend the money speaks volumes!!

I am amazed at how this council sees 100K a yr and sees a goldmine. Again, an example of demographics. ( To the majority of people in Tyrone...that's big money )

ESTIMATED HOUSEHOLDS BY HOUSEHOLD INCOME


................................. Tyrone PA .............United States
Income Less Than 15K ............. 25.41% ...... 13.64%
Income between 15K and 25K ...... 15.74% ...... 11.21%
Income between 25K and 35K ...... 12.15% ...... 11.46%
Income between 35K and 50K...... 20.02% ...... 15.84%
Income between 50K and 75K ...... 17.66% ....... 19.28%
Income between 75K and 100K ...... 5.18% ...... 11.53%
Income between 100K and 150K ...... 2.95% ...... 10.70%
Income between 150K and 250K ...... 0.47% ...... 4.43%
Income between 250K and 500K ...... 0.43% ....... 1.31%
Income greater than 500K ............. 0.00% ...... 0.61%



Stapnir also asked, "and how do those planned improvements stack up against what the natural beauty of Ice Mountain will be worth to the town for the next 100 + years?"

Simply put...to those who appreciate the conservation value of Ice Mountain... they don't.

[sandstone]

You stated repeatedly that you do not value our natural heritage. You went so far as to state that there is nothing unique or of exceptional conservation value about Ice Mountain. With those words you show your enormous disrespect for the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory. That Inventory was done by professional ecologists working for the Blair County Planning Commission.

Dr. Kotala - I have stated repeatedly that I do not share your, or some of the other persons on this threads, passion for nature. I have not once questioned the validity of the Natural Heritage Inventory. How can I? I am not an expert...I can only speak to my views on the topic. If you have that quote somewhere I would certainly love to see it. I in no way shape or form have to share your views, or any one else's for that matter...This is what is called free will, which I am exercising. I most certainly have taken your viewpoint into consideration, but I don't have to make your view my view. Be happy you have had so many jump on your cause. It is something to be proud of.

Right there it is...that statement...the type of things you say that outrage so many people. Although I certainly respect Sandstone's RESEARCH... I have formed an opinion all by myself. Jumping on his cause...bandwagon effect...pffft. I, maybe unlike you, make my own judgements and decisions in life...based on many things, but I have never jumped on anything because of the belief held by someone else.

And as far as you not questioning the validity of the Natural Heritage Inventory... you certainly have. It's implied. If ANYONE votes yes to the windfarm on Ice Mountain...then they have no respect for that inventory, since that inventory suggests that windfarm is detrimental to Ice Mountain. YOU TALK OUT OF BOTH SIDES OF YOUR MOUTH.

I respect the people who have worked hard to do this Inventory, but that does not mean I have to do as they say. Now I am saying that because as far as I know and understand this Inventory and things like this are not binding as laws and such. Are they not to be taken as recommendations? I don't know the answer so maybe Dr. Kotala can chime in and let me know if what was handed down by the Blair County Planning Commission was something that was binding or was it a recommendation?

Councilman Latchford's questions above indicate that he has read neither the overview of the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory nor the section about Ice Mountain (Allegheny Front Landscape Conservation Area #1). As a member of a body that will decide the future of Ice Mountain, one would think that a borough councilman would read the pertinent parts of that document. The Blair County Commissioners approved the expenditure of funds for the research that went into that document and the project was sponsored by the Blair County Planning Commission. I am both disappointed and surprised that a borough councilman would not even bother to read that portion of the document dealing with a Blair County Natural Heritage Area that may be ruined by a decision made by council.

As its name implies, the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory is a catalog of our county's natural habitats, focusing on only the best natural areas remaining in the county. These areas are designated as Blair County Natural Heritage Areas and they comprise about 15% of the county. Almost all of the Blair County Natural Heritage Areas are on mountains, because the valleys have almost no remaining natural habitats left (they've been almost 100% converted to agricultural and urban uses). Most of the Allegheny Front, of which Ice Mountain is a part, does NOT have Blair County Natural Heritage Area Status, because of fragmentation by residential areas and strip mines. Ice Mountain is one of the few areas of the Allegheny Front that has earned County Natural Heritage Area status, and the only one that is described as being EXCEPTIONAL.

County Natural Heritage Areas are divided into those of exceptional, notable, and high value. Only the best of the best earn the EXCEPTIONAL title. In the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory, Ice Mountain (Allegheny Front LCA # 1) is designated as EXCEPTIONAL.

The Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory has a variety of uses. Developers can use as a screen to avoid areas which may contain threatened or endangered species or exceptional habitats that may derail their projects. Naturalists can use it as a guide to see our county's best natural areas. Municipal officials can use it to protect areas of exceptional value (as Tyrone Township, Antis Township, Frankstown Township, and Logan Township have done). Conservancies can use it to prioritize areas for the purchase of conservation easements. Natural resource agencies can use it to prioritize areas for possible addition to our State Game Lands and State Forest systems.

The Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory makes recommendations regarding the management of Blair County Natural Heritage Areas. Regarding Ice Mountain (Allegheny Front LCA #1), it recommends that the area not be fragmented with additional roads.

The Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory is online at http://www.naturalheritage.state.pa.us/ ... 202006.pdf

[Something to say]

NATURAL : in a state of nature; uncultivated, as land.
growing spontaneously, without being planted or tended by human hand, as vegetation.

HERITAGE : Something that is passed down from preceding generations; a tradition.

AREA : a geographical region; tract

of

EXCEPTIONAL : forming an exception or rare instance; unusual; extraordinary.

CONSERVATION : the act of conserving; prevention of injury, decay, waste, or loss; preservation, official supervision of rivers, forests, and other natural resources in order to preserve and protect them through prudent management.

VALUE : to consider with respect to worth, excellence, usefulness, or importance.

It baffles me how this council can read that inventory and treat Ice Mountain with such frivolty. As "land owners" one would think they would want to preserve and protect a mountain which is as Sandstone said, " one of the few areas of the Allegheny Front that has earned County Natural Heritage Area status, and the only one that is described as being EXCEPTIONAL."

And Bill Latchford if you respond to this by saying... I just don't care as much about nature...blah blah blah...THEN FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S HOLY STOP PRETENDING YOU ARE ALL ABOUT CONSERVATION AND HELPING THIS PLANET TO BECOME "GREEN". YOU HAVE A GREEN MOUNTAIN YOU WANT TO DESECRATE ( defile, violate, dishonor ).

IF ANY OF THE REST OF YOU COUNCIL MEMBERS BOTHER TO READ THIS THREAD... a thread about YOUR community...AND ARE CONSIDERING THIS WINDFARM.......PLEASE RECONSIDER AND SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN.

[stapnir]

Folks,

Thanks for the responses.

Please let me explain, although I have certainly formed an opinion about the wind farm proposal, it's possible to see both sides in this case. $100K "in the hand," might be worth more than a beautiful mountain view, to people who need money now to meet their basic needs. The mountain view, on the other hand, is likely to be worth more than $100K a year in future, to people who are sick of Centre County's ridiculous real estate prices, and want to live somewhere a bit cheaper, yet beautiful and relatively unspoiled. Aesthetics does, indeed, have a money value.

At any rate, I hope that whoever prevails--be it pro- or anti-windmills--things will turn out for the best. (Just, please, make sure there's an inflation clause written into any lease).

What's puzzling me, is: who makes the decision, who signs the lease, who receives the money, and who decides how the money is spent? I can't figure out how the process is supposed to work. I gathered that the wind farm lease, had already been approved via public referendum. Would the same people who said Yes to the lease signing, also decide how the money is to be spent?

Then again, if the public referendum wasn't really the final word on the wind farm, who makes the final decision to sign the lease, or not sign it--and who decides what to do with the $$ if it is signed?

I guess my question really amounts to, how is Tyrone governed? I know there are a mayor and borough council; what are their responsibilities? Who else has a say?

Perhaps I am getting off-topic, and should post my query to the "Q&A" thread? :w

Thanks for any light that anyone can shed.

[sandstone]

Folks,

Thanks for the responses.

Please let me explain, although I have certainly formed an opinion about the wind farm proposal, it's possible to see both sides in this case. $100K "in the hand," might be worth more than a beautiful mountain view, to people who need money now to meet their basic needs. The mountain view, on the other hand, is likely to be worth more than $100K a year in future, to people who are sick of Centre County's ridiculous real estate prices, and want to live somewhere a bit cheaper, yet beautiful and relatively unspoiled. Aesthetics does, indeed, have a money value.

SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN is concerned about aesthetics, but even more concerned about the impact of the roads, transmission line corridors, substations, and gargantuan wind turbines on wildlife. Below is the statement we made (by Juniata Valley Audubon) to Tyrone Borough Council in the spring of 2006.

An unbiased assessment of the conservation value of Ice Mountain was done by the Blair County Planning Commission through the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory about 5 years ago. Ice Mountain and its surrounding area were designated as a Landscape Conservation Area (Allegheny Front #1 LCA) and County Natural Heritage Area of Exceptional Significance. It was so designated because Ice Mountain represents a large block of unfragmented forest habitat important to forest-interior species, such as the bobcat, the fisher, the black-throated blue warbler, the black-throated green warbler, the scarlet tanager, and the hermit thrush. No major roads or infrastructure disrupt the forest's continuity.

The Executive Summary of the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory describes Landscape Conservation Areas as “large contiguous areas that are important because of their size, open space, habitats, and/or inclusion of one or more Biological Diversity Areas.” It goes on to say;

“These large regions in relatively natural condition can be viewed as regional assets; they improve quality of life by providing a landscape imbued with a sense of beauty and wilderness, they provide a sustainable economic base, and their high ecological integrity offers unique capacity to support biodiversity and human health. Planning and stewardship efforts can preserve these functions of the landscape by limiting the overall amount of land converted to other uses, thereby minimizing fragmentation of these areas.”

Ice Mountain and its surrounding area were also designated as Greenways in the revision of the Blair County Comprehensive Plan; which was based on public comments received in 2002-2005 . Greenways are areas where the preservation of the natural landscape should be given first priority. The Areawide Comprehensive Plan for Blair County (adopted by the Blair County Commissioners last year) states;

“The ridge tops in Blair County are one of its defining characteristics. As one looks in any direction, the mountain ridges dominate the landscape. They demonstrate the power and constancy of the natural forces that shaped them. Development along ridge tops should be discouraged so that their imposing beauty is preserved. Ridge lines that should be conserved are the Allegheny Front and Dunning, Short, Loop, Lock, Brush, Bald Eagle, Canoe, and Tussey Mountains.”

Were a “wind farm” to be built on Ice Mountain then the “wind farm,” not the mountain, would dominate the landscape. It is hard to imagine a more shocking and obtrusive feature on the mountain than arrays of 450-foot tall towers with 140-foot long whirling blades.

[sandstone]

I gathered that the wind farm lease, had already been approved via public referendum.

There was a nonbinding informal poll conducted on April 22. 55% (~600) of the people who voted that day approved of the windplant, 45% (~500) didn't.
1,400 people signed a petition opposing the windplant on Ice Mountain.

Not one local conservation organization approves of a windplant on Ice Mountain. The windplant is opposed by the Little Juniata River Association, Juniata Valley Audubon, the Moshannon Group of the Sierra Club, and the Sinking Valley Watershed Association. These organizations have banded together, and along with the 1,400 unaffiliated citizens who signed the anti-windplant petition, have formed an organization called SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN.

[sandstone]

Then again, if the public referendum wasn't really the final word on the wind farm, who makes the final decision to sign the lease, or not sign it--and who decides what to do with the $$ if it is signed?

The decision on whether or not to sign a lease with Gamesa (the windplant developer - different from the eventual windplant owner, which likely will be Babcock and Brown) will be made by Tyrone Borough Council. Borough Council also will decide how to spend the money.

Keep in mind that the proposed windplant is to be in Snyder Township, and thus it must be built in accordance with rules set up by that municipality. Snyder Township is in the process of crafting a windplant ordinance. Antis, Tyrone, Logan, and Frankstown Townships do NOT allow windplants in Blair County Natural Heritage Areas. If Snyder Township crafts an ordinance like that of the aforementioned municipalities, then no windplant can be built on Ice Mountain, because it is a Blair County Natural Heritage Area.

[My2Cents]

Here's an interesting fact that I somehow have overlooked... I called the borough to find out EXACTLY were ward 7 was... Surprisingly enough... East Tyrone. Ward 7 encompasses Adams Ave to the Snyder Twnshp line... and guess what...?

On April 22, Tyrone residents voted 601 (55%) to 493 (45%) in favor of Gamesa’s proposed Sandy Ridge wind farm, which includes 10 to 15 turbines on borough-owned watershed property in Snyder Township, Blair County. A proposed lease agreement could bring Tyrone as much as $150,000 a year for 30 years. That equates to 4.6 percent of the borough’s current $3.2 million General Fund budget. To put it another way, council members would have to increase the borough tax rate by 9.4 mills to generate $150,000 in a single year. As part of the decisive win, the proposal won in six of the borough’s seven voting precints. The proposal won in six of Tyrone’s seven wards, with the only loss coming by 10 votes. Here is a breakdown of the votes by ward:

Ward 1 – 106-83 in favor

Ward 2 – 75-53 in favor

Ward 3 – 68-48 in favor

Ward 4 – 48-39 in favor

Ward 5 – 65-61 in favor

Ward 6 – 151-111 in favor

Ward 7 – 88-98 against

For the primary, 2,932 people were eligible to vote. According to unofficial returns, turnout was 43%, with 1,249 ballots cast. Of the voters who turned out, 1,094 people, or 86%, took the survey.

I would imagine East Tyrone would be the part of town most effected by run-off and flooding......

Then again, if the public referendum wasn't really the final word on the wind farm, who makes the final decision to sign the lease, or not sign it--and who decides what to do with the $$ if it is signed?

The decision on whether or not to sign a lease with Gamesa (the windplant developer - different from the eventual windplant owner, which likely will be Babcock and Brown) will be made by Tyrone Borough Council. Borough Council also will decide how to spend the money.

Keep in mind that the proposed windplant is to be in Snyder Township, and thus it must be built in accordance with rules set up by that municipality. Snyder Township is in the process of crafting a windplant ordinance. Antis, Tyrone, Logan, and Frankstown Townships do NOT allow windplants in Blair County Natural Heritage Areas. If Snyder Township crafts an ordinance like that of the aforementioned municipalities, then no windplant can be built on Ice Mountain, because it is a Blair County Natural Heritage Area.

I believe the above is worth repeating... basically, what most of this is coming down to is, what is Snyder Township going to do ?? In looking at the above post from "Something to say," Most of the people in ward # 7 that voted, voted against these things. The people in Ward #7 are the ones who will be most effected by the potential run off and flooding if these wind mills are installed above them. Ward #7 is touching onto Snyder Township... which contains all the Hollows, Decker Hollow, Cook Hollow, etc.... I hope the folks in the Hollows are paying attention to what is looming on their door step. Their peaceful ,quiet, setting... their property values.... all , are on the verge of coming to a halt if they sit back and watch, and allow this to happen.
PLEASE NOTE: Only 33% of the registered voters in Tyrone are Democrats. It was a Democratic Primary when this vote was taken. Many Republicans did not come out. This vote was unfair for all involved !!! Plus, they failed to mention, or even include, the petition that was taken up with over 1400 names on it !!!
Just a few days ago, Gamesa had a full page write-up in the Herald... the first paragraph stating.... "The Borough residents took an important step April 22 by deciding as a community to embrace the benefits of clean energy. By a wide margin, voters showed their support for the wind farm....blah, blah, blah, etc...enough to produce enough electricity to power 15, 000 homes." Plus, it goes on and on with the crap....Once again the "15,000 home" thing is pushed to the unknown public !!! This 15,000 home thing should be their logo for they have pushed that statement into every community they have come into contact with.
Also, "25 to 30 wind mills" will not stop there.... they will want to put more and more and more up there once they get started !!!

[Bill Latchford]

Dr. Kotala - Between pages 86 and 87 of "The Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory" report....When you get some free time...could you please point out to me where "Ice Mountain" is on the provided graphic? The topology is not real clear. I might be looking in the wrong section. When I compare that graphic to like Google Earth it appears that "Ice Mountain" is in LCA #2. This of course could be a mistake on my part and I would like to base my thoughts on the correct location of "Ice Mountain". I think it would be beneficial to all to see the exact location on "The Inventory" of where "Ice Mountain" is located. Thank you in advance.