Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

[Something to say]

LOL.... I have read and re-read those minutes and to be quite frank... I find them to be outrageously funny. I mean..c'mon...this is ludicrous.

locating projects at least 5 miles from known hibernacula

HOW FUNNY IS THAT?????

Absolutely absurd.

Gamesa doesn't have any problem installing an industrial windfarm within 2 miles of "human hibernacula"


avoiding existing forested habitat to maximum extent


Historically Ice Mountain has been known for great hunting.... the bear, the dear, the bobcat, the birds and all other creatures up there must just VISIT but live elsewhere.

[Something to say]

Thanks sandstone!

[sandstone]

LOL.... I have read and re-read those minutes and to be quite frank... I find them to be outrageously funny. I mean..c'mon...this is ludicrous.

locating projects at least 5 miles from known hibernacula

HOW FUNNY IS THAT?????

Absolutely absurd.

Gamesa doesn't have any problem installing an industrial windfarm within 2 miles of "human hibernacula"


avoiding existing forested habitat to maximum extent


Historically Ice Mountain has been known for great hunting.... the bear, the dear, the bobcat, the birds and all other creatures up there must just VISIT but live elsewhere.

Biological Survey responds to PA Game Commission wind energy voluntary cooperation agreement
May 31, 2007 by Pennsylvania Biological Survey

http://www.windaction.org/documents/10075

Summary:
This report, authored by the Wind Energy and Bats subcommittee to the Pennsylvania Biological Survey's (PaBS) Mammal Technical Committee, documents the PA Game Commission's direct side-stepping of a long-established memorandum of agreement with the PaBS when the Game Commission developed and finalized the Wind Energy Voluntary Cooperation Agreement without the review or input of the Biological Survey. The memorandum of agreement was created over 10 years ago to help ensure that the Game Commission obtained advice from experts about actions affecting the mammals inhabiting the Commonwealth.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The PA Biological Survey (PaBS) - a non-profit scientific, educational, and advisory organization of professional biologists, incorporated under the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania - sent this report to the Pennsylvania Game Commission (PGC).

The report, authored by the Wind Energy and Bats subcommittee to the Biological Survey's Mammal Technical Committee, documents the PGC's direct side-stepping of a long-established memorandum of agreement with the PaBS when the Game Commission developed and finalized the Wind Energy Voluntary Cooperation Agreement without the review or input of the Biological Survey. The memorandum of agreement was created over 10 years ago to help ensure that the Game Commission obtained advice from experts about actions affecting the mammals inhabiting the Commonwealth.

The report also undercuts the legitimacy of claims by Secretary DeBerardinis that "The Game Commission's voluntary agreement is a model for the nation" which "grew out of their participation in a science-based, collaborative effort of government, industry and others"; these statements were incorporated in the April 2007 PGC's press release that praised the signing of this Agreement by a dozen wind energy developers - see: http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view ... 1&Q=171573 .

The main body of the report critiques the terms of and research protocols included in the Game Commission's Wind Energy Cooperation Agreement.

In concluding their report, the Pennsylvania Biological Survey "urges the PGC to abandon the current Protocol to monitor Bat and Bird Mortality at Industrial Wind Sites (Exhibit C of the Wind Energy Cooperative Agreement) and develop a more realistic, more meaningful, and more scientifically sound protocol, that will evaluate wind turbine impact, and protect the wildlife and other resources of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania."

It further states that "The current PGC protocol is not based on the "best science available" and is not in keeping with recommendations and/or does not address concerns of the US Fish and Wildlife Service (2003), The US Government Accountability Office (2005), the National Research Council Report (2007), the position held by the Mammal Technical Committee in a previous communication to the PGC (Appendix I), the position of Bat Conservation International (Appendix II), recent expert testimony before the US Congress (Committee on Natural Resources, 2007) and numerous government and independent bat experts and scientists in the US and Canada. To continue to promote and use such a protocol would be to put the interest of the wind industry before the interest of the Commonwealth."


Web link: http://alpha.d*ck.edu/prorg/pabs/index.htm
Download File(s):
Review of PGC Wind Energy Agreement_MTC of PA Biological Survey.pdf (161.13 kB)

[Something to say]

So... If the PGC does NOT consider industrial windplant development to be consistent with the conservation objectives of State Game Lands and the current PGC protocol is not based on the "best science available" and is not in keeping with recommendations by those committees....is it safe to assume that the new protocol would be more stringent?


Im thinking this is way over my head...lol

It's too bad that the integrity of Ice Mountain lies within the hands of the borough of Tyrone.

[sandstone]

So... If the PGC does NOT consider industrial windplant development to be consistent with the conservation objectives of State Game Lands and the current PGC protocol is not based on the "best science available" and is not in keeping with recommendations by those committees....is it safe to assume that the new protocol would be more stringent?


Im thinking this is way over my head...lol

It's too bad that the integrity of Ice Mountain lies within the hands of the borough of Tyrone.

Doesn't matter how stringent the agreement is. The problem is that it provides only VOLUNTARY UNENFORCEABLE GUIDELINES, not regulations.

[Ice Man]

Is this what ICE Mountain will look like in 2010? http://www.windaction.org/pictures/15111

[Bill Latchford]

Is this what ICE Mountain will look like in 2010? http://www.windaction.org/pictures/15111

If Turbines are up there I would expect there to be some sort of posting to remind people of possible dangers Ice Man.

[Ice Man]

Is this what ICE Mountain will look like in 2010? http://www.windaction.org/pictures/15111

If Turbines are up there I would expect there to be some sort of posting to remind people of possible dangers Ice Man.

Then Ice Mountain will have become another ugly industrial site.

Maybe gas wells would be a better option; at least they're less obtrusive. How many gas wells or how much acreage would need to be leased to earn the borough $150,000 per annum?

[sandstone]

Is this what ICE Mountain will look like in 2010? http://www.windaction.org/pictures/15111

If Turbines are up there I would expect there to be some sort of posting to remind people of possible dangers Ice Man.

Then Ice Mountain will have become another ugly industrial site.

Maybe gas wells would be a better option; at least they're less obtrusive. How many gas wells or how much acreage would need to be leased to earn the borough $150,000 per annum?

The Borough of Tyrone has 3,500 acres of watershed that could be available for extracting highly pressurized gas from tiny spaces and cracks in the 350-foot-thick layer of Marcellus shale more than a mile below the surface.

The borough would receive payment through a bonus upon signing a lease and would receive royalties if wells produce.

Bonus prices in Pennsylvania typically are $2,000 an acre.

If the borough leases all its available land, it could earn a $7 million bonus.

If a company sets up 7 wells on the watershed, each one on a 400-acre tract, a modest output of gas could generate $3 million for the borough annually.

Over 20 years, with declining output, those wells could generate $25 million — a number easily within the area’s potential.

So, to answer the Ice Man's question, the interest from the $7 million bonus (if invested in PA municipal bonds, paying ~4%) would yield $280,000 annually to the Borough of Tyrone, about 2x as much as maximum windplant revenue. This bonus is paid just for leasing the land. If gas is found each well can be expected to generate $400,000 annually for the Borough of Tyrone, but with decreasing returns over time. Thus, one gas well would generate 3x as much revenue as maximum windplant revenue (15 turbines).

[Bill Latchford]

Thanks for the input SandStone...Sounds pretty lucrative if money was the only issue on the table. I suppose natural gas has it's place and could hopefully lower utility bills for those that use this source for heat and such. My house is entirely electric, but until something can bring down the costs of PV I will just work on conserving and replacing my light bulbs with CFs and support greener alternatives. It is important that everyone do what they can to lower their carbon footprint then things like Wind Farms and the like would not have to be thought of as the only green alternative.

[sammie]

Does anyone know how much natural gas is used to generate electricity in Pennsylvania?

[My2Cents]

Is this what ICE Mountain will look like in 2010? http://www.windaction.org/pictures/15111

If Turbines are up there I would expect there to be some sort of posting to remind people of possible dangers Ice Man.

Bill, I hope you don't think Ice Man meant just that initial photo that came up when you click on that site. There is an area on the bottom right of the photo ("next") that takes you to many, many, other photos. Plus, there are other photo's of things within some of the photos showing fallen turbines and many other things including photos of how these monstrosities have ruined landscapes and how terrible they look just sitting in the peoples backyards. These people are overwhelmed by wind turbines... if you are out for a nice quiet drive in the country, and look their way you don't see a beautiful home, a well cared for lawn and flower beds, etc. like one use to... now, if you look their way, all you see is overpowering wind turbines and nothing else. Their beautiful home and all the hard work that went into it is still there, but, no longer a peaceful setting and a joy to look at, you don't see that anymore.
If you get into the photos far enough there is a whole area on those installed in PA.

[Bill Latchford]

I have looked through all the pics there...remember beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I can't argue though about the fear of an accident. If turbines go in on Ice Mountain, there should not be an issue of a human being hurt by some turbine failure. If there were something catastrophic we would just have to hope for a quick response of the personnel that will be maintaining the site.

[Ice Man]

My house is entirely electric.

Natural gas is used to produce electricity.

[Bill Latchford]

My house is entirely electric.

Natural gas is used to produce electricity.

Thanks for the info. I was aware of that but did not know the percentage vs. Coal, Nuclear and such. A quickie Google and I am sure I will know the answer. Take Care.