Tyrone Police Department and Greg Ray Termination

[mikkevkal144]

"Not all of that was indeed the Greg Ray investigation," Kilmartin noted. "It was an investigation of all the police force and the borough also suspended two other police officers."

Those officers, Jessica Barlick and Matthew Lutz, were given five-day unpaid suspensions Monday night by the council for misconduct. Kilmartin declined to elaborate on the suspensions or Ray's firing but stressed the scope of the borough's concerns within the police department spanned from "top to bottom."


This is a quote from the Altoona Mirror.... If they fired Greg, months ago, why did they wait so long to suspend, jes and (golden boy) Lutz??? They know the election is coming up and they need all the help they can get to keep their seats..... We can do it Tyrone!!!! Lets get them out of there.

[Christy]

Oh boy, what a huge announcement by Mayor Kilmartin. Kilmartin said a whole bunch of nothing. The only reason he made the statement was because they (incumbents) are gettign beat up over this in the press. The Borough has already taken the stance that they had a different burden of proof than that of a criminal investigation. Kilmartin wouldn't know burden of proof if it slapped him up along side of his head. Even the District Attorney's Office has already said that this explanation "will never fly". How about we all google "just cause", (which is what is required under the police contract) you will get references regarding meaning or the definition (by law) of the term. It does not include mere rumors or unsubstantiated allegations. This is what the Borough is hanging there hat on. The entire investigation is based on rumors or allegations that have no additional evidence to substantiate the allegation. All made by a bunch of druggies who had all of or most of their charges dropped to write the statements. Lots of people were suppose to be around, but none of the other people were contacted and interviewed. Many people interviewed refuted the allegations or defended Greg but those interviews were not included in the investigative report or they were summarized to paint a different picture. I believe what needs to happen is that Greg and I will have an open house and allow anyone who wants to read the biased (and not an investigation of the entire department) investigation you can come and read it and I guess we will also allow you to read all of the evidence that Greg has against the Borough. Beleive me, the Borough is going to come out on the losing end. What a pathetic bunch we have in this Council!! Apparently, the Borough is going to represent all of the defendants in the lawsuit, until there is a conflict and man is there going to be conflicts, then the Borough will drop them like a hot potato. This entire fiasco sickens me and the idiocy of the Council only adds insult to injury. When Council says that "we stand behind our decision", they forget that they represent the entire community and most of the community does not stand behind their deceision.

[Wreck2107]

I took your advice and googled "just cause" in relation to employment laws. I found a wide variety of information on many different websites.
It is my understanding, from your post, that "just cause" is required for termination, as per the police contract, so I thought it might be interesting to actually look up the definition.
From my search, I have learned that "just cause", in the employment context, refers to the employer's right to discipline or terminate employees for reasons such as misconduct or negligence. It covers everything from the obvious, like showing up to work drunk or stealing from your employer, to the less obvious like insolence, insubordination and not fulfilling job duties.
"Just cause" is often a matter of interpretation by the courts or arbitrators.
One of the factors that may be examined to determine whether just cause existed for a disciplinary action or firing is whether or not the employer investigated prior to taking action.

I do not write this expecting to change anyone's mind, but just to present some information. This is a very complex situation and many people are emotionally involved, which is to be expected. I don't really have any investment in either side, just presenting some thoughts, take it as you will...

[Meaux]

Today's Altoona Mirror online
http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/conte ... ntNum39814

...depends on what the definition of IS is... How soon those in elected office become POLITICIANS parsing words.

"Kilmartin said after the meeting that he didn't believe there was any difference in meaning between the AG's recommendation ... that the charges were "unfounded" and the statement from the borough that "the Attorney General did not believe that he could prove the allegations."

Merriam Webster would not have come to the same conclusion.

UNFOUNDED: lacking a sound basis : groundless, unwarranted

PROVE...proved; proved or prov•en: a:to test the truth, validity, or genuineness of, b: to test the worth or quality of ; specifically : to compare against a standard —sometimes used with up or out c: to check the correctness of.

[Tapout9947]

There is only one way any of this is going to get better..That is by electing a new Mayor and Council ..Everyone on here and in Tyrone needs too go vote..we need a Mayor that makes his own Decisions..We need Bill Fink...As long as the same council and same mayor are there nothing will change..they have already proven this...

[mikkevkal144]

Tapout9947,, I couldn't agree more. We need a change, vote for Bill Fink, then, and only then will we start seeing a better future for our little town.

[mamasays]

I attended last nights borough council meeting and it appears to me that the former mayor is still obviously running the show. Jim is merely keeping the seat warm. The former mayor made the bullets meant for greg years ago , but left it up to the joined-at-the-hip minions to do the firing. They persist in believing(and expect the citizens of tyrone to also believe)their ridiculous allegations. This just proves how inadequate they truly are in making important decisions regarding whats best for the people of tyrone. My heart went out to Matt Plummer when he got up to speak yet again on the topic of why he has no hours yet they are hiring more officers. We all know the two reasons why Matt hasn't worked: his union membership, and his positive attitude towards greg. Hopefully, this will come to a swift end when all the statement writers(perjurers)are required to pass the same tests that greg passed(polygraph and drug screening)and realize the punishment they face for their false statements.Lets not forget that elections are not far off and it is crucial for the many supporters of greg to get out and vote and replace these wrong doers and change the face of tyrone now and in the future.Thanks again to everyone of you for your endless support, its meant more to greg and his family than you will ever know.

"Failure is not falling down..............it it staying down"...............we are not staying down!! his mom :mob:

[jumper56]

Well said Mom!! :thumb: And once more to beat that horse, I seem to recall the message here, from one person, that said they had spoken to a good many 'supporters' that were NOT registered voters (and supplied the web site to register). For shame!! Personally, if you didn't vote, you aren't entitled to even open your mouth later! You did nothing, you got NOTHING!! So, get registered and show that you care for your town and how it is being managed. Tyrone has over 3,000 voters, will be interesting to see how many get to the polls this time.

Somebody find that great quote that loosely translates to, 'the way that evil men succeed is that good men do nothing'. Apathy. Humans need to grow their spines back! We seem to have lost them somewhere along the way. Good luck all!!

[Meaux]

English philosopher Edmund Burke said, ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.’

[mikkevkal144]

English philosopher Edmund Burke said, ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.’

Meaux, your very right, lets not allow this thread die. We need to keep people updated on the events that are troubling to our town, Evil will triump if we do nothing. Don't forget what has gotten us to this point... Time for a change........out with the evil and in with the good.....

[mikkevkal144]

Missed tonights council meeting, anything happen tonight??????

[mrwirtner]

Oh. you know, the usual. Voting in a work session, nitpicking picinic tables. as much as can be expected from our current administration. From what i understood, they voted to deny gregs union grievance to be re-instated.(someone correct me if thats not the case) with steve hanzir being the only one that still thinks for himself (voted no). hanzir also brought up about maybe changing the meeting/executive session time so that they can actually start on time. but clapper said theyre usually pretty good about that (30 min or less)and it doesnt need changed. (cuz ya know, hes a council member and should have a say in stuff) but in case anyones interested, he stated later on that his birthday is on may 16. im sure cards from citizens that think hes doing a great job would be very much appreciated :mob: .

[mikkevkal144]

I thought that the 1st meeting was just a work session, does anyone know if the council changed these rules and forgot to tell anyone about it? Should we address the Birthday cards for Steve to the Borough Building?

[mrwirtner]

sorry i should have been more specific. larry clapper said his birthday was may 16

[mikkevkal144]

If thats the case then never mind about the address....