Tyrone Police Department and Greg Ray Termination

[Bill Latchford]

In responce to "Something to say": You were way off....I was stating that, I believe most people would not want the reasons for their being let go made public and then I provided an example.

Citizens are allotted certain information under the law but when it comes to personnel issues that is one place where it is pretty strict. I mean think about it, don't you as an employee deserve privacy if you had been disciplined for something. Do you really want the public to know "hypothetically" that you failed a urine test for drugs or that you got in trouble for surfing the Net for p*rn while at work? These are private matters between the employer and employee.

I took the 2 and a 1/2 minutes to locate my quote on page 12 of this thread...I believe it works better if you provide the full context so it is understood. What you wrote was, to say the least, not understandable when it came to the point I was trying to get across.

[newcouncilmember]

Just a question Bill if it is such a private matter then why do you fire or publicly suspend officers at a public meeting?

[DragonFly69]

Also Bill why are all the firings and suspensions being done at the non voting work sessions? Non voting means no voting. Could it be because less residents attend the " non" voting work sessions? Also I feel that after you vote on an issue there should be public comment after each vote not at the beginning of the meeting. The public should be able to comment on any issue that is involving them. Hmmm that would be every issue that is brought up. If we are paying for it we should be able to comment on it.

[Christy]

Unfortunately Bill, none of these examples apply. Greg Bock was allowed to view everything that Greg has received and it is laughable, and you know it. Greg has nothing to be ashamed of or to be embarrassed by, nor do we have anything to hide. Which was implied by a certain person on Council. The Borough has spent a lot of money in the quest to terminate Greg, which could have been spent to hire additional police officers which the Borough desperately needs. However, nobody wants to come here and work because of the recent debacle. I did not realize that the Borough had so much money, during these recent economic times, that the Borough could waste such a large sum of money on an uneccessary investigation. This is the crux of the entire debate. The Borough wasted a pile of money and apparently you along with the other Council members approved it, or turned a blind eye. The current sitting Council members have to be held accountable and this includes you. There have been some very bad decisions made during the past year and it can not and will not be swept under the table. The citizens of this community will not allow this to happen. I believe that Council has brought shame to this community in the eyes of Blair County. You know this as well. Council fired Greg on mere rumors and unsubstaniated allegations and this is a fact. It is very unfortunate that Tyrone has to bare a black eye on the decision of a few. If Greg had anything to hide he would have resigned long before it got to this point. He would have left the police department quietly in April 2008 when the Attorney General's Office investigation was brought to his attention. The private investigators were not hired by the Borough until the end of October, when everything headed south for the Borough. When your talking $100,000.00 for three months work, that is not a bad gig. I would like to know where I would get my application from the Borough to receive this type of salary. The Borough Council seems to need a huge dose of reality. Instead of rubber stamping everyting it would be nice for the members of Council to be able to think for themselves, ask questions and make inquiries (GO STEVE HANZIR!). If Council would have been in the private sector, they would have been terminated for reckless spending of company funds and would have been so advised in person. :banghead:

[Wreck2107]

Just a question Bill if it is such a private matter then why do you fire or publicly suspend officers at a public meeting?

Bill will obviously know more about this than me since he actually participates in such matters, but, to the best of my knowledge, they may announce/vote on a suspension, resignation, termination etc. at public meetings, but boroughs/townships etc. are not permitted to release any details regarding that action. So you may hear about a suspension, but you will not hear the exact actions/events that led to that suspension.
While this upsets many of you, I think you will find this is normal and is not Tyrone Borough conspiring to keep you in the dark. Check with other local municipalities and you will see they hold executive sessions to discuss all personnel matters. One or two sentences may be briefly mentioned at a public meeting While it may have been discussed privately over several hours, days or even weeks.

[newcouncilmember]

All that I would like to know is to why these officers were terminated or suspended if the borough officials cannot tell the public then I guess it is up to the officers terminated or suspended to let the public know why this has come about. If these officers do not have nothing to hide they will let the public know why. I would just hope that when this all comes about that the general public is not involved because the officers have every right to tell EVERYTHING THAT WAS INVOLVED IN THEIR TERMINATION OR THEIR SUSPENSION. Lets all remember that by making this all public that Tyrone PD is not looking good in the public eye. If Bill knows more than you do and I was questioning Bill since he should know the laws PLEASE LET HIM ANSWER ME. JUST WANTED THE ANSWER FOR ONE QUESTION AND WAS COUNTING ON BILL TO ANSWER THIS FOR ME WITHOUT ANSWERS FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

[Wondering]

There has been reference to amount of monies Tyrone Borough paid to these private investigators. It the amounts stated earlier are correct, the Tyrone tax payers should be up in arms. I would suggest that someone invoke Pennsylvania's Right to Know Law (Act 3 of 2008). Tyrone open record resolution is available on the boro's website. If you are specific in your request; wanting information on financial transactions between the boro and the private investigation firm you may have success. If you stray into the investigation piece of the puzzle you will be road blocked. If the council rejects the request, there is an appeal process. The Act sets strict timelines for a response. The Right to Know Law may help out other's in seeking what is going on in the boro.

One thing that I have noticed, is that many I talk to in Tyrone (and many who support Greg) do not vote. This is a shame. There is much emotion concerning this issue, but if people don't vote, than there will be no change. You can download the voting registration form (http://www.votespa.com) and give them to Greg's supporters and friends (help them fill it out and mail it!). They can register up to April 20th so the clock is ticking.

[Something to say]

In responce to "Something to say": You were way off....I was stating that, I believe most people would not want the reasons for their being let go made public and then I provided an example.

Citizens are allotted certain information under the law but when it comes to personnel issues that is one place where it is pretty strict. I mean think about it, don't you as an employee deserve privacy if you had been disciplined for something. Do you really want the public to know "hypothetically" that you failed a urine test for drugs or that you got in trouble for surfing the Net for p*rn while at work? These are private matters between the employer and employee.

I took the 2 and a 1/2 minutes to locate my quote on page 12 of this thread...I believe it works better if you provide the full context so it is understood. What you wrote was, to say the least, not understandable when it came to the point I was trying to get across.

Bill... Thanks for finding the post. I realize you used that example to demonstrate an employee's right to privacy. But...... Since you stated disciplinary measures could be taken for that type of behavior.... I borrowed it to demonstrate conduct unbecoming a police officer. I was not implying that was a reason you gave for Greg's termination. I really don't think my paraphrase was much different than what you initially said. It certainly was not wayyy off. Now behave yourself and don't argue with your elders, its not very becoming. :rolleyes:

Ohhhhhhhhh....and the next time the borough wants to throw away 100K to have dirt dug up on someone......hire me. I will find people guilty of conduct unbecoming human beings, time and again, for that amount of money. And I know yunz have it... a little bird told me so...wasn't an eagle...maybe they already got wind of their impending doom and flew the coop.

[Wreck2107]

PLEASE LET HIM ANSWER ME. JUST WANTED THE ANSWER FOR ONE QUESTION AND WAS COUNTING ON BILL TO ANSWER THIS FOR ME WITHOUT ANSWERS FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

Bill is free to answer the next time he logs in. However, last time I checked this is a public forum and I'm free to post here just the same as you.

[banksy]

PLEASE LET HIM ANSWER ME. JUST WANTED THE ANSWER FOR ONE QUESTION AND WAS COUNTING ON BILL TO ANSWER THIS FOR ME WITHOUT ANSWERS FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

Bill is free to answer the next time he logs in. However, last time I checked this is a public forum and I'm free to post here just the same as you.

IF YOU MEANT IT TO JUST BILL, THERE IS A PRIVATE PM AVAILABLE. AS YOU SAID, THIS IS A PUBLIC FORUM.

[mikkevkal144]

I remember a quote from - "Mr. Latchford"

These Managers / Supervisors / and Chief of Police are all paid to run their departments. It is important for Council not to interfere with that unless a problem is brought up. You will always spend money on personnel issues. If there is a union involved you will spend money. I can not speak for the rest of Council on who knew or did not know all the requirements for the canine unit? I trust those we put in charge of these situations to handle these issues, that is what they get paid for. In regards to your "People want answers", If I recall Attorney Clapper did mention that Officer Ray requested a copy of the report and he can make it as public as he wants. So when he gets it please ask him if you can look at it.

Well after a little research, I learned the wind blows both ways! Here is some information voters should be aware of .......
.
HOME RULE CHARTER, ARTICLE VIII- BOROUGH MANAGER, SECTION 802- REMOVAL - THE COUNCIL MAY REMOVE THE BOROUGH MANAGER AT ANY TIME WITH CAUSE.

ARTICLE XIII - POLICE DEPARTMENT, SECTION 1302- APPOINTMENT, REMOVAL, PROMOTION, SUSPENSION AND REDUCTION IN RANK - SUBJECT TO CIVIL SERVICE PROVISIONS ESTABLISHED BEFORE AND AFTER THE EFFECTIVE DATE IF THIS CHARTER, BOROUGH COUNCIL MAY APPOINT AND REMOVER, OR PROMOTE OR SUSPEND OR REDUCE IN RANK, ONE (1) OR MORE SUITABLE PERSONS, CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AS BOROUGH POLICEMEN.

ARTICLE XVII RECALL, SECTION 1701- OFFICERS SUBJECT TO RECALL - ANY PERSON HOLDING AN ELECTIVE OFFICE OF THE BOROUGH, WHETHER BY ELECTION OR APPOINTMENT TO FILL A VACANCY, SHALL BE SUBJECT TO REMOVAL FROM OFFICE AT A RECALL ELECTION IN THE MANNER PROVIDED IN THIS ARTICLE (HOME RULE CHARTER REVISED JANUARY 1, 1992) THIS RECALL PROCESS IS OUTLINED IN ARTICLE XVII.

The actual Home Rule Charter provides interesting reading/information and goes into more detail on these procedures.

[Wreck2107]

So, the Altoona Mirror posted a story and documents regarding this issue. It states $65,000 as opposed to the $100,000 mentioned previously in this thread. It also claims this money went to investigate various aspects/members of the police force. Can someone with "inside" knowledge explain these discrepancies?
Maybe I misunderstood the story but it surely wasn't the information I expected to hear after all the chatter on here....
Or, perhaps they did not post the entire story. I'll definitely be watching for the paper tomorrow morning though.

[DragonFly69]

No money at all should of been spent on private investigators, the attorney generals office was handling the investigation. You don't honestly believe that these private investigators are better than the attorney generals office. As far as investigating other officers - that is just what I expected them to say ! One more tall tale on top of all the rest :jester:

[park21012]

after reading the Altoona Mirror..funny how "suddenly" the money used to "investigate" was now used to look into the entire Police Dept...my guess is that the Borough got word that it was going to be made public about the expenses to investigate Greg Ray ..so at last Council meeting they decide to throw in Jessica's name (which they have been after her for awhile) and the golden boy ..Matt Lutz.. and suspend them. This is their way to get Jessica out just like they did Greg and Matt Plummer. Trust me..Matt Lutz might be on "suspension" but Im sure he will still be getting paid to take care of the dog..and I wonder if he will be driving the Durango on his 5 day suspension?? Or will it just be "parked" at his APARTMENT (not a house with a fenced in yard mind you)..Please..its part of the game that the Borough is playing..Lutz took one for the team and everyone knows it. Borough Council is a joke. Tyrone needs honest people to serve this town! And..for the post above..I dont care if it was 65,000 or 100,000 ..it is a waste of freaking money..the Attorney Generals office is the best of the best and they found NOTHING. There was no need for the Borough to hire a PI to investigate Greg Ray...

[Christy]

Regarding Greg Bock's story, he and I have discrepancies regarding the amount of money that was spent on the private investigation. Greg did a very thorough and respectable job, however I believe he kept the figure on the conservative side. The invoices regarding the investigation are confusing and alot of the information is blacked out and we did not compare our respective documents so we don't even know if we received the same information. Go figure, the information on the invoices was blacked out. Regardless, it was a lot of unnecessary spending. Greg Bock did a superb job of informing the public and hats off to him. I'm sure more information will follow, but more research has to be completed. Happy Easter to all.