Tyrone Immigration Ordinance?

[jayestewart]

Leep,

I was not taking a position in this debate. What I was trying to respond to was an earlier post saying that they could not understand why people had to make laws against people who were just trying to make it here in the US.

My point was that is the attitude here in Florida and as a result we have suffered serious impacts to our operational budgets.

The point I was trying to make and perhaps I didn't express it clearly is that your leaders are trying to address this problem head on so they are not forced to divvy up the tax dollars which are already not enough to yet another effort.

Furthermore I spend significant time in both communities and I see the difference first hand.

Bottom line is a prudent leadership would determine a strategy before hand. This will prevent what we are dealing with here in Florida now as a result of our lack of planning in this area.

Hope that helps. Jay is the name by the way..

[Leep]

Thanks for the clarification, Jay.. Good point and point well taken..
take care:
Leep Out:

[banksy]

These illegals do the jobs we need done that nobody else in America really wants to do.

I totally disagree with that. The illegal aliens are doing the jobs for many business owners who want to pay the lowest wage possible in order for a job to be done.

It's not because Americans won't do the work. It's because most Americans want to be fairly compensated for the work.

To be quite honest, I don't think someone who cuts grass and does basic landscaping should be paid $15.00 an hour. It's what drives the cost of stuff like that through the roof to the point it become unaffordable.

You want a higher paying job, get a degree.

[150thBucktailCo.I]

Holy cow. $15 an hour for grass mowing and landscaping? I'd be more than willing to ride a mower and rake mulch for that, and I have 2 degrees! I'm certain you won't find that in Blair county! Especially in a state where $24,571 is the annual per capita income of a Pennsylvania worker, and is roughly one-third of what a freshman state legislator makes.


I have 2 friends in Altoona who both own and operate landscaping and lawn care (snow removal, too, when it is necessary) businesses and have done work on my property. The guys who are doing the mowing, trimming, and mulching get paid $7-$9 per hour depending on experience and how long they've been with the companies. The guys doing the hardscaping (retaining walls and paver stone walkways and patios) typically earn between $9-$11 per hour depending on experience and longevity with the company. They might earn a little more if it's a large and difficult project.

I'm sure those employees would love to see $15 an hour around here.

[kthompson]

It seems that it is being wrongly assumed that all latino's are here illegally, taking away jobs, and draining every ones resources. While it is true that some are here without proper documentation, there are more here working legally than not, with visas, green cards, and work visas, etc, and certainly many latino persons are citizens, native by birth, but "branded " by race.
If you want higher paying jobs, get a degree, learn better skills, etc. Banksy is right. You have opportunities many latinos dont!!!!! You can also work to pass a "living wage" ordinance in your communities. Your government, through your representatives, has set a minimum wage. I dont like low wages either, but I do have a voice and a vote. Work for change! Many latinos take min wage jobs due to lack of education and lanquage skills. Most work two jobs to survive- yet people complain as if they have it easy...
Capitalism is based on producing more for less. Stock holders want dividends, consumers want low prices. Business owners want profit. The system is designed to to pay the least it can to make the most it can. If one wants to make a difference, then support business that pay fairly. Be willing to pay a bit more for a product..."consume" for change!
And as far as draining our pocket books...yes, there are those who get help that are not paying into the system thru taxes...but arent they paying into the system by working here, picking our food, mowing our lawns, washing dishes, sitting our children,cleaning houses? Are they not a part of our community and economy?
Illegals are reluctant to go to hospitals, etc for fear of being caught and deported. They dont take unemployment when they get laid off, etc.
There was a comment on veterans and others in the military defending our great country...quite a few people who are serving in our armed forces are latino by heritage, and/or are U.S. citizens...defending us everyday and with as much on the line as anyone else.
Immigration is grey. Its some good and its some bad. And it is here. Now what can we do to make it work for all ?
This is just my opinion - I respect the opinions of others, but I think that we can do better for us all. All latinos are not illegal, and all illegals are not latino. Its the system that needs a reworking- immigration, economy, consumerism, etc, - and our attitudes towards others. No one ordinance by itself is going to change all that!

[Kelly]

I have to agree with Banksy. If you want a better paying job, get educated. There are plenty of opportunities for *LEGAL* citizens of this country to get some sort of post-secondary education in the form of grants, scholarships and student loans. These are only available to people who aren't breaking the law by being here illegally kthompson, so don't tell me that legal Latinos can't do better for themselves because they have no opportunities. That's an excuse, and a lame one at that. If someone really wants to get an education and a better job, they find a way to do it. I think it's great people want to move to the United States for a better life as long as they follow the procedures and laws we have, but I have no compassion for people who are criminals. That's what illegal immigrants are. They may be 'nice people' or 'hard workers' but they're criminals. I can't figure out why people conveniently forget that when they are discussing illegal immigrants and the problems they are creating for our country. They just don't throw the word illegal in there because it looks nice. And if they are too lazy to learn English and can't get a higher paying job, it really isn't my problem. I have a great solution to their language barrier issue preventing them from getting a better paying job-Learn English.

[banksy]

The entire "learn English" line of speaking is a line of crap. They do learn English once they were here for some time. They can't learn it over night.

Like I have said, I don't hold a grudge against someone who is here illegally if they are here for the right reasons:

1. To enjoy our freedoms
2. To make a better life for themselves and their family

If they are bad people, then get them out, but by saying bad I refer to any person in this country, legal or illegal. I'm not so narrow minded to be concerned if a person with a good heart is here in this country legally or illegally. Some have no option but to get here illegally and then try to legalize it. They're country forces that upon them (*cough* Cuba.) We should open our arms to these people and do the best we can.

[Kelly]

I don't think being concerned with the very serious illegal immigration problem in my city and being thankful our mayor and other civic leaders are trying to do something about it is a problem or makes me narrow minded. I didn't think having a problem with my city's resources being drained to pay for social services for the thousands of illegal immigrants living in Charlotte while they send their dollars out of the country instead of contributing some money towards taxes was such a horrible thing. I should be really happy the government is planning to raise my property taxes again this year to cover the deficit. Yay! I shouldn't care that one in five children in the public school system is attending class in a mobile classroom because of over crowding. There's no money to build new schools because it's all being channeled elsewhere, like for the new informational signs (No Left Turn, Parking, Bus Stop, for example) being put up around town to show English and Spanish. I shouldn't concerned about the street gang problem we have (according to crime reports many members are illegals in a certain gang), the increase in crime in neighborhoods where mainly illegal immigrants live and the public safety issue that is created when people can't communicate with the police or fire department. I really shouldn't be worried that illegal immigrants are stealing legal citizens identities and social security numbers to get jobs and credit and drivers licenses. Maybe I should just put up a sign on my front yard with all my personal information. That is the best I can do to open my arms to them.

Maybe you don't have a problem with it because it's not a happening in your community, but it's a problem here and something needs to be done about it. I would support an ordinance similar to the one Hazelton signed in to law if it's going to protect me and all the other law abiding, legal citizens of my community. If something isn't done to enforce our nation's laws regarding illegal aliens, this will be your city or town in a few years.

[moses lee]

Man, Every one of these posts on this subject are insightful and prove a
point. Tyrone has produced intelligent and insightful people. Every post had a valid point. Is there a compromise for this issue? I don't know I am
just asking. I have no "degree" but do learn from those who do.

There has to be some middle ground somewhere. Anyhow great posts who needs C-Span.

[Blackout]

This is such a difficult issue in our country right now. Does anyone actually have statistics for the Tyrone area on illegal immigration? I would be interested to see if this issue has really arrived in the area yet. I lived in Florida for 7 years and have seen the positive and negative sides of illegal immigration. The one thing I would like to say is when you see a latino man or woman working at a restaurant or on a landscape job or what have you, don't make the mistake I used to and assume they are here illegally. I became great friends with many Latino families and they are some of the best people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing......and they were all here legally. I do believe the immigration problem is out of control and it is sapping communities of it's resources and the laws need to be enforced. The one thing I'll never do anymore though is blame a latino for wanting to be in this country. From listening to all the horrific stories of what they were forced to grow up in and if the tables were turned......I would be first in line to cross the Rio Grande, legally or not. Anything to give my family a better life. So when you see latin families entering your community, one, don't assume they are there illegally. Two, don't blame a human being who has the courage to give his or her family a better opportunity, blame the WHITE AMERICAN business owners who hire them. If this is truly an issue for you and your community, go to the source of it.

[Leep]

It is wrong to make statements that people who are her illegally should be given free reign to stay.
It is also disingenuous to state that people need not assimilate into our society and culture and have no need to learn our language.

They do not learn English once they are here.. Most are Illegal and have neither the means or desire to learn it.
As for being afraid to go to hospitals and emergency rooms, I would be interested where you got that information because it does not reflect reality. Hospitals have to treat them by law and also by law cannot inquire as whether or not they are here illegally or not, also by our laws.
Police who stop illegal aliens, in almost every state, are not allowed to hold them and even check and see if they are illegal. this is from the federal government, as they do not want bothered with the headaches associated with processing them and haven't the money allocated to do it anyway.
And, I know i am repeating myself here, but it doesn't seem to have taken, all, all the border states are almost bankrupt because they incur HUGE debts due to the onslaught of illegal aliens over washing the emergency rooms every day. And, places like California give welfare benefits to anyone who asks for them. My research has shown that it is almost criminal how they decide who qualifies for them.
Now, something for Tyroners to reflect on.
You have not been affected by any of this, none of it has touched you, either personally or financially..
When it does and your taxes go through the roof because the commonwealth decides they need to pay for everything that they need..Well, then we'll see..

And, once an illegal alien gets here and either comes here pregnant or gets that way after they break the law-our laws, passed by our elected officials and approved by our citizens, the baby becomes an automatic citizen, incredible..
Here in Montana, as you might imagine, we have a lot of Mexicans who do the irrigation work and other hard jobs on our ranches. For the most part they are good decent people, but if they did not go through the proper channels and get special treatment, and get this, take jobs away from the legal aliens that went through YEARS of work and training to get their cards and then their legal status.. they too suffer from the waves of illegal aliens that cross our borders 24 hours a day..
Illegals do not contribute anyway near as much to our economy as you might believe.. They send almost every penny back to Mexico to their families who are still there and suffer under the stranglehold of the corrupt Mexican Government..
They pay few taxes because many of them work for cash-...

People need to start viewing the world with clear glasses and not those tinted with emotion...
There is nothing wrong with caring, believe it or not, I have a good heart and would give the shirt off my back to someone in need, and have...
Oh, I also have two degrees, one from Penn State and one from The University Of Montana, and like our friend who is in the same boat, that doesn't seem to carry all that much weight in our small town...or even in our area.
That is one reason why i left and came west, along with an irresistible desire too live in the Rocky mountains , since i read my first book on the trappers of the west back in the middle sixties in our High School library...Lol

None of this is meant to anger anyone or insult anyone....Though i can see where I might have ruffled a few feathers, but that is simply because when i enter into a debate i expect to have the other side of it speak from a position of knowledge and not simple emotions..
And, I'm a pretty emotional guy myself.

Still- good stuff, everyone, and this type of discourse is much needed today and here is a good example of it..Keep up the flow..
Take care and a Merry X-Mas to you all.
Leep Out:

[banksy]

Maybe we should ship all the blacks back to Afirca, the Jews to the middle-east (because you know, that land really isn't theirs anyway,) all blondes (real blondes) to Europe.... hmmmmm, yellows to China, etc....

... my main purpose if to irritate those of you who are so vigiliant about illegals to the point you lump all of them together. They are people, just like you, and god forbid that someday you need to move south of the border becuase your Presdient has alienated the world from our country as a religious zealout mudering people in the middle east.

Now that outta be worth a few replies.

[jayestewart]

Banksy,

This is not anything to do with mistreating legal immigrants. It is about protecting the resources of small communities like Tyrone from having to deal with the drain on resources when a community is innudated with folks who don't have legal means to support social services provided in a community. I am not in favor of sending anyone anywhere. I think the leaders of the community need to do whatever it takes to protect the already strained resources from being depleted by a surge of illegal immigrants into a community.

In my experience, I have found most immigrants legal or illegal to be hard working people. The problems arise when they cannot buy insurances, get licenses and attend college. If they were able to contribute to the real estate and earned income tax base it might alleviate the concerns. Under current laws taxes from illegal immigrants don't get collected.

We all know and Tyrone is a prime example, our country was built by immigrants so there is value to immigration. It just has to happen methodically and legally so everyone is on a level playing field.

[zapatista]

Feliz Navidad Gringos.

[jayestewart]

Feliz Navidad to you too. Please respect your heritage.