I don't really think it's rocket science to reverse-engineer an East End Hoagie, but if it took a former employee to show somebody how to make one, then ok. Unethical would have been breaking into the safe and stealing the "secret recipe". Buying the same ingredients and making a similar sandwhich isn't unethical.
I think you failed to read my post and take my point. I like East End hoagies and will continue to eat them. I haven't set foot in Mac's for twenty years and probably never will again. The point is, there isn't anything unethical about another business selling sandwiches. If Tyrone Sandwich and Six Pack started selling an East End-like sub, would that be unethical too?
When a business has limited hours of operation and faces new competition, that could put them at a disadvantage. It either will or it won't, and they'll either overcome it or they won't. I think you fail to grasp the principles of free market economy. The market will decide. If there isn't a market for another sandwich shop in that part of town, it won't survive. If the market is there, it will.
For years, Mikes/Derman's/Phoenix existed between Mac's and East End, selling somewhat similar products and services. It isn't there anymore. That's how it works.
Obviously East End won't miss customers that they don't have. They will however miss those customers that migrate away from them and choose another provider. When somebody wants a Hoagie in August or September or whenever East End is closed for a month, and calls East End and finds them closed, they may try Mac's. If they like it, maybe they won't go back to East End. That's just how it works.
Business Ethics
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Rick
- Administrator
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- If Mike has 13 apples, and gives six to Jane, how many does he have left?: 7
- Location: Tyrone, PA
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Just a polite reminder...
I'm glad to see so many people enjoying the discussion, and I know many of the posters are first-time / new members.
I just wanted to poke my head in, ask anyone if they needed their drinks refilled, some fresh snacks, or a cigarette break.
Just keep the discussion on track, and within the outlined "rules" in my signature below, and thanks again...
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Keep it clean
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Although I have a sense of humor, don't make it personal...
I just wanted to poke my head in, ask anyone if they needed their drinks refilled, some fresh snacks, or a cigarette break.
Just keep the discussion on track, and within the outlined "rules" in my signature below, and thanks again...
<ding>
Keep it clean
and no hitting below the belt...Although I have a sense of humor, don't make it personal...
New to the boards? Welcome aboard, and please be sure to read the rules.
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Be sure to check out our Frequently Asked Questions area too!
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snyd2001
- Member
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:56 pm
- If Mike has 13 apples, and gives six to Jane, how many does he have left?: 13
- Location: New Cumberland, Pa.
I guess I am going to have to buy one of each and conduct my own taste test on these. Will have to buy them both at the same time so I can taste them both at the same time. Is Mac really that close to the East End onion taste? By the way this is really giving both places lots of free advertising especially Mac's. As out of hand as this debate is getting maybe we should put it on the next election ballot????? 
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techguy
- New Member
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 12:26 pm
- If Mike has 13 apples, and gives six to Jane, how many does he have left?: 13
- Location: Home-Tyrone; TAHS class of '82
After reading all of the comments posted on the East End - Mac's Market issue, I have to say that mangotree has really nailed it. I couldn't have said it better and I can't think of anything else to add. As a lifelong resident of Tyrone, and after consuming countless East End products, I have to say that they are one of a kind. Great product, but I believe they have become self-serving with little regard for their customers. Long live free enterprise!
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Mainegirl
Well, I have been very rigid with my diet lately.... but you guys are really making me crave a PA hoagie. The state of Maine has wonderful food, (don't get me wrong) but the hoagies are just not the same! Now our neighbors in Boston probably a different story, but here yuk! They call them "italians" and they have lettuce,tomato,onion,pickles and usually ham and cheese. The roll is not great either. In my opinion, wherever it be-Pa's hoagies/subs are the best!!
Disneyqn, I can't figure out if you're blinded by the Sweitzer blood or just plain not getting it.
Selling out of product is not acceptable for a hoagie shop. You need to order more so your customers aren't constantly disappointed and sent home empty-handed. It happens regularly, so you obviously don't care that you're not satisfying as many customers as you could be. You hit the profits you want and head for home.
To your point about preparing food, that still doesn't make it ok to shut down the counter. Guess it would be too much work to be preparing food AND serving it simultaneously. Again, you'd have to pay a few more employees which would cut into those profits. There's no excuse for East End business hours, and defending them only makes you guys look worse.
My "little old lady" reference was taken out of context. I said that's how you painted the picture of East End's management, ignoring the fact that your shop is run by her children also. Any action Brian has taken is just as much in competition with her children as it is with her, if not more so. For the record, I think Louise is nice, hard-working, etc. like you point out -- her children for the most part are not. All of them work at East End, so by association, East End is not nice, even though Louise is. I think you missed my point here.
If East End were a nice, friendly place, with employees who went out of their way to take care of their customers (like any good business should do), Mac's probably wouldn't have lifted a finger and this war probably wouldn't exist.
Selling out of product is not acceptable for a hoagie shop. You need to order more so your customers aren't constantly disappointed and sent home empty-handed. It happens regularly, so you obviously don't care that you're not satisfying as many customers as you could be. You hit the profits you want and head for home.
To your point about preparing food, that still doesn't make it ok to shut down the counter. Guess it would be too much work to be preparing food AND serving it simultaneously. Again, you'd have to pay a few more employees which would cut into those profits. There's no excuse for East End business hours, and defending them only makes you guys look worse.
My "little old lady" reference was taken out of context. I said that's how you painted the picture of East End's management, ignoring the fact that your shop is run by her children also. Any action Brian has taken is just as much in competition with her children as it is with her, if not more so. For the record, I think Louise is nice, hard-working, etc. like you point out -- her children for the most part are not. All of them work at East End, so by association, East End is not nice, even though Louise is. I think you missed my point here.
If East End were a nice, friendly place, with employees who went out of their way to take care of their customers (like any good business should do), Mac's probably wouldn't have lifted a finger and this war probably wouldn't exist.
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mother2xs
For the record, I never said that Disney did not care about war or starving chidren. I stated that there were more important things to worry about than hoagies..I am sure that those are your concerns also. I would never put words in someone elses mouth. If you felt offended then I am sorry. I think you are upset over the hoagie deal with Mac's. If you want to vent on me...Go ahead.....
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For starters, I am deeply offended by anyone who is suggesting they know my feelings toward the WAR and/or STARVING CHILDREN. That is totally absurd. How dare you make such a claim. This is a cafe that voices opinions and concerns about many topics, so if you would like to create a post about the war and hunger issues, then I would be glad to respond. The comment truly did not even justify a response, however I wanted to make it clear that the topic of this post, created by me is BUSINESS ETHICS.
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For starters, I am deeply offended by anyone who is suggesting they know my feelings toward the WAR and/or STARVING CHILDREN. That is totally absurd. How dare you make such a claim. This is a cafe that voices opinions and concerns about many topics, so if you would like to create a post about the war and hunger issues, then I would be glad to respond. The comment truly did not even justify a response, however I wanted to make it clear that the topic of this post, created by me is BUSINESS ETHICS.
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smalltowngirl
customer service
I think everyone agrees that East End has a great, much loved product. No debate there. I think the problem is that the restuarant survived for 51 years, even with horrible customer service, because of the onions and the "unique taste" they give the sub.
Now, however, that is in jeopardy. Now, maybe the customer service will hurt that, because you can go get the same taste WITH customer service. Loyalty only goes so far, especially when service is involved. I know the business of customer service. People CARE how they are treated and getting what they want, when they want it. Don't be so quick to predict MAC's downfall. Mangotree and mother2xs I was SOOOO relieved to read your comments. Business ethics were not even an issue here. The menu item was not stolen here... this is AMERICA... Hoagies made with LOCAL meat... for crying out loud. They are EVERYWHERE and COLD is not a menu name, it is a description. GEEZ. Although this has been entertaining it is getting old. Business ethics aren't broken when someone tries to duplicate a product that is already successful... like a previous post says, if it were, we would not have pepsi AND coke. I can understand a family member being upset by a threat to their family business... but... the hard line they took on the other business is simply unfair. IF anything this will keep me FROM East End Hoagies. It shows a real lack of class.
Now, however, that is in jeopardy. Now, maybe the customer service will hurt that, because you can go get the same taste WITH customer service. Loyalty only goes so far, especially when service is involved. I know the business of customer service. People CARE how they are treated and getting what they want, when they want it. Don't be so quick to predict MAC's downfall. Mangotree and mother2xs I was SOOOO relieved to read your comments. Business ethics were not even an issue here. The menu item was not stolen here... this is AMERICA... Hoagies made with LOCAL meat... for crying out loud. They are EVERYWHERE and COLD is not a menu name, it is a description. GEEZ. Although this has been entertaining it is getting old. Business ethics aren't broken when someone tries to duplicate a product that is already successful... like a previous post says, if it were, we would not have pepsi AND coke. I can understand a family member being upset by a threat to their family business... but... the hard line they took on the other business is simply unfair. IF anything this will keep me FROM East End Hoagies. It shows a real lack of class.
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disneyqn71
- Member
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:19 pm
- If Mike has 13 apples, and gives six to Jane, how many does he have left?: 13
- Location: Pinecroft
business ethics
Selling out of Hoagie Rolls is not by choice, my friend. And for the record, all of her children do not work there, so you need to stand corrected.
If it was all about profits, then Louise would order another 80 dozen, so people such as yourself could solicit her once in a blue moon. East End caters to its loyal patrons. Hundreds of folks eat in there 4-5 times a WEEK.
You do the math. You are talking about a 500 sq. ft. building that has seen its years and you expect the building (which is part of Tyrone history) to accommodate more employees????What are you thinking? Again, if it was about profits, then maybe they would order more rolls to sell more hoagies, but one can clearly see that it just simply is not the case. If I made the preparations for 80+ DOZEN of hoagies every day then I too, would call it a night when the last one flew off the shelf.
Patrons of East End poke fun (or as you claim get insulted) when they are told to "hurry" up and get there to pick up their order, however on the flip side, you NEVER have to wait more than 5 minutes and most of the time it is ready for you upon your arrival. Did you ever consider why they "rush" to get you in and out? Maybe, just maybe it is to enable you to experience the freshest, most unique Hoagie in Tyrone???? The Sweitzers were never opened between 1-4 for the past 51 years. This has always been the way it was. The Sweitzers had their reasons for it and whether you say "no excuse" or not, it is what it is. Does the majority eat lunch from 1-4? I don't think so. It was strategic on their part, so borrowing from an earlier post...KUDO's to them.
I disagree with your last comment about "not lifting a finger, if...". Considering, despite the demenour, attitudes and/or friendliness of the East End employees, HE would'nt of had to lift even a half of a finger to COPY. If you want to ride the coat tails and you don't want to be unique with your products, then you have to BE NICER than YOUR competition. HE has to maximize his competitors weakness' and minimize the SOLE FACT THAT HE is and always will be a COPY CAT, free enterprise or not. Check out the demographics of Tyrone...How many NEW business' make it in Tyrone? Why is that? So he is BOUND to make some profits thanks to LOUISE and thanks to people like you, who want to be showered with kindness when you are ordering your FAST FOOD. Give me a break.
I am not a Sweitzer and therefore am not "blinded" by their blood, however I have my own career and could not pass up the opportunity to expose "the new business" for what it really is...a phony!
Everyone keeps saying "let the customer decide...", I agree. If you want to eat an EAST END HOAGIE, you now have TWO choices, the original or the reproduction.
If it was all about profits, then Louise would order another 80 dozen, so people such as yourself could solicit her once in a blue moon. East End caters to its loyal patrons. Hundreds of folks eat in there 4-5 times a WEEK.
You do the math. You are talking about a 500 sq. ft. building that has seen its years and you expect the building (which is part of Tyrone history) to accommodate more employees????What are you thinking? Again, if it was about profits, then maybe they would order more rolls to sell more hoagies, but one can clearly see that it just simply is not the case. If I made the preparations for 80+ DOZEN of hoagies every day then I too, would call it a night when the last one flew off the shelf.
Patrons of East End poke fun (or as you claim get insulted) when they are told to "hurry" up and get there to pick up their order, however on the flip side, you NEVER have to wait more than 5 minutes and most of the time it is ready for you upon your arrival. Did you ever consider why they "rush" to get you in and out? Maybe, just maybe it is to enable you to experience the freshest, most unique Hoagie in Tyrone???? The Sweitzers were never opened between 1-4 for the past 51 years. This has always been the way it was. The Sweitzers had their reasons for it and whether you say "no excuse" or not, it is what it is. Does the majority eat lunch from 1-4? I don't think so. It was strategic on their part, so borrowing from an earlier post...KUDO's to them.
I disagree with your last comment about "not lifting a finger, if...". Considering, despite the demenour, attitudes and/or friendliness of the East End employees, HE would'nt of had to lift even a half of a finger to COPY. If you want to ride the coat tails and you don't want to be unique with your products, then you have to BE NICER than YOUR competition. HE has to maximize his competitors weakness' and minimize the SOLE FACT THAT HE is and always will be a COPY CAT, free enterprise or not. Check out the demographics of Tyrone...How many NEW business' make it in Tyrone? Why is that? So he is BOUND to make some profits thanks to LOUISE and thanks to people like you, who want to be showered with kindness when you are ordering your FAST FOOD. Give me a break.
I am not a Sweitzer and therefore am not "blinded" by their blood, however I have my own career and could not pass up the opportunity to expose "the new business" for what it really is...a phony!
Everyone keeps saying "let the customer decide...", I agree. If you want to eat an EAST END HOAGIE, you now have TWO choices, the original or the reproduction.
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Let them cruise
Business Ethics
I was reading the book "The Hidden Verses of Nosrtadamus" by Penguin Press 1992. I wonder if the following verse has a connection to Tyrone.
Century XI Quatrain XXVII
A great star rises in the East,
A half century of unbridled reign,
Fiery neon’s herald tumult, a previous order changed,
The great eagles hunger is quenched as a clock is reset.
Century XI Quatrain XXVII
A great star rises in the East,
A half century of unbridled reign,
Fiery neon’s herald tumult, a previous order changed,
The great eagles hunger is quenched as a clock is reset.
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djbigdawg1
wow i missed a few days and started reading some postings and was wondering........what happened in here?
first of all, quite a few of us are in favor of free enterprise. brian decided the small family store/ meat cutter operation wasnt cutting it. it has been determined that a fomer employee showed him the ropes and he ran with it. now he is opening up a sammich/pizza shop right down the block from east end. its those persons rights to agree with brian.
secondly, disney and a few others has determined that its unethical to duplicate this "formula" for great hoagies. they do not agree with this opening of this sammich shop and the selling of "hoagies". its their rights to disagree too.
now we have some that have problems with the arguing of this hoagie-gate conspiracy. they think we should argue about starving kids, war and other worldly problems out there. its their rights too. BUT thats what we have "new postings" for in this cafe.
i would like to say to disney that no one in here is bashing you about your opinion. you feel that the sweitzers have been robbed and thats your opinion. no one in here is going to or try to persuade you otherwise. some feel for you and the "family" so they will not stray from buying your hoagies 4-5 times a week. there will be others in town that will stray from the mainstay hoagies cuz of whatever reasons. BUT thats their choice and decision that they will make, no matter how long east end has been selling their brand of hoagie.
to mother, this is a cafe and anyone can make a post to discuss in here....no matter if its hoagie-gate, war, starving kids....or what reasons should harlow be on the radio?? if you dont like the discussion in here, dont read or follow the posts and start one that you feel comfortable talking about that might mean something to you. just my opinion, but i would rather talk onions than war anyday.
somehow things went a lil south in here about hoagie-gate. some will try the "new" hoagie in town, some will not.......but thats up to whomever is buying that night.
this is NOT to bash anybody. im just stating what i have read so far. just felt that some comments were a lil personal or was taken too personally.
for me........if i really want a east end hoagie, ill buy east end. if they r not open or whatever reason i cannot purchase one from them, i just might try a machoagie (NO this is not a stoner hoagie from the mayor maccheese era)
first of all, quite a few of us are in favor of free enterprise. brian decided the small family store/ meat cutter operation wasnt cutting it. it has been determined that a fomer employee showed him the ropes and he ran with it. now he is opening up a sammich/pizza shop right down the block from east end. its those persons rights to agree with brian.
secondly, disney and a few others has determined that its unethical to duplicate this "formula" for great hoagies. they do not agree with this opening of this sammich shop and the selling of "hoagies". its their rights to disagree too.
now we have some that have problems with the arguing of this hoagie-gate conspiracy. they think we should argue about starving kids, war and other worldly problems out there. its their rights too. BUT thats what we have "new postings" for in this cafe.
i would like to say to disney that no one in here is bashing you about your opinion. you feel that the sweitzers have been robbed and thats your opinion. no one in here is going to or try to persuade you otherwise. some feel for you and the "family" so they will not stray from buying your hoagies 4-5 times a week. there will be others in town that will stray from the mainstay hoagies cuz of whatever reasons. BUT thats their choice and decision that they will make, no matter how long east end has been selling their brand of hoagie.
to mother, this is a cafe and anyone can make a post to discuss in here....no matter if its hoagie-gate, war, starving kids....or what reasons should harlow be on the radio?? if you dont like the discussion in here, dont read or follow the posts and start one that you feel comfortable talking about that might mean something to you. just my opinion, but i would rather talk onions than war anyday.
somehow things went a lil south in here about hoagie-gate. some will try the "new" hoagie in town, some will not.......but thats up to whomever is buying that night.
this is NOT to bash anybody. im just stating what i have read so far. just felt that some comments were a lil personal or was taken too personally.
for me........if i really want a east end hoagie, ill buy east end. if they r not open or whatever reason i cannot purchase one from them, i just might try a machoagie (NO this is not a stoner hoagie from the mayor maccheese era)
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disneyqn71
- Member
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:19 pm
- If Mike has 13 apples, and gives six to Jane, how many does he have left?: 13
- Location: Pinecroft
business ethics
Nice summary, DJ...
Funny how you can get another perspective when you sit back and actually weed through the posts. I appreciate your comments and although they are not in favor of one particular hoagie vs. another, I do believe you understood my intentions.
Funny how you can get another perspective when you sit back and actually weed through the posts. I appreciate your comments and although they are not in favor of one particular hoagie vs. another, I do believe you understood my intentions.
I just made a trip to New York City.. around every corner is a MacDonalds... and across every street is a Starbucks!! I don't see them fighting..(maybe they have other things to fight about).. I don't really see the issue.. loyal customers will stay loyal... others will leave... free will (darn that free will anyway).... but besides all that... how long do the Sweitzers really plan on running East End after Louise is gone (hope thats not for many many more years)...? and I've heard that the onions are nothing more than onions cut up and soaked in wesson oil for about 24 hours or so... maybe throw in some oregano and salt and pepper... try it at home, maybe we can all put them both out of business and end this!