Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

[My2Cents]

Does anyone remember the wording of the borough's survey question(s)?

Can't recall sammie... sorry. Was written on approx 3X5 size paper... I filled mine out and handed it to the person instead of putting it into the box myself... I'm from the old school of trust. However, the more I see and hear in our world today, it's a shame to have to wonder afterwards.... did it, or did it not make the box ??
For me, to even question or think that way, was another rude awakening !!!
Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.... Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.
But, I still haven't lost faith....

[Ice Man]

Does anyone remember the wording of the borough's survey question(s)?

Can't recall sammie... sorry. Was written on approx 3X5 size paper... I filled mine out and handed it to the person instead of putting it into the box myself... I'm from the old school of trust. However, the more I see and hear in our world today, it's a shame to have to wonder afterwards.... did it, or did it not make the box ??
....

Salaman and his acquaintances experienced inappropriate handling of the poll, as he detailed in posts right after the April election. Some did not get to participate because there was no one there to administer the poll.

Other than Terry Hyde and Mr. Bumgardner (a landowner who's leasing to Gamesa), I've never heard anyone publicly support the windplant.

[Something to say]

Most of the general public who are not in the "know" and reading this nicey, nicey, propaganda contained in these articles will wonder why, after reading all that nicey, nicey stuff, our council would do such a thing by voting NO.
Maybe, just maybe, if they stand up to this company and give them an absolute NO... people will start paying attention, and begin to understand, why they voted NO!!!

That's exactly what the Logan Township Planning Commission did. Close to 60 people spoke up AGAINST the proposed Chestnut Flats Wind Farm (Horseshoe Curve) during a public hearing last month. Only one person spoke in favor of it. And that was in spite of Logan Township being offered close to $100,000 annually by Gamesa for the proposed windplant!

I find it bothersome that the Tyrone Borough Council never organized a public hearing about the Ice Mt windplant proposal. That seems to be the standard procedure in other municipalities. This is particularly worrisome in light of the irregularities at the polling stations regarding the informal windplant poll. Salaman can tell you all about that.

I couldn't agree more IceMan...and honestly...it feels like a slap in the face. I do not live in the borough, but I swear if I did I would be "rippin a fit" with MY council. If a lease is signed and this all takes place I would STRONGLY encourage all of you that do live in the borough.........to get rid of that council.


While Gamesa keeps summing it all up with a figure at the polls...they fail to mention the petition with 1500 signatures and the additional 45% at the polls that ARE NOT IN FAVOR OF THIS.

I have YET to see people so much in favor of this project that they formed a group.......DESTROY ICE MOUNTAIN...with the exception of Gamesa and their lackeys who are receiving money from this corporate rapist.

[Ice Man]

Most of the general public who are not in the "know" and reading this nicey, nicey, propaganda contained in these articles will wonder why, after reading all that nicey, nicey stuff, our council would do such a thing by voting NO.
Maybe, just maybe, if they stand up to this company and give them an absolute NO... people will start paying attention, and begin to understand, why they voted NO!!!

That's exactly what the Logan Township Planning Commission did. Close to 60 people spoke up AGAINST the proposed Chestnut Flats Wind Farm (Horseshoe Curve) during a public hearing last month. Only one person spoke in favor of it. And that was in spite of Logan Township being offered close to $100,000 annually by Gamesa for the proposed windplant!

I find it bothersome that the Tyrone Borough Council never organized a public hearing about the Ice Mt windplant proposal. That seems to be the standard procedure in other municipalities. This is particularly worrisome in light of the irregularities at the polling stations regarding the informal windplant poll. Salaman can tell you all about that.

I couldn't agree more IceMan...and honestly...it feels like a slap in the face. I do not live in the borough, but I swear if I did I would be "rippin a fit" with MY council. If a lease is signed and this all takes place I would STRONGLY encourage all of you that do live in the borough.........to get rid of that council.


While Gamesa keeps summing it all up with a figure at the polls...they fail to mention the petition with 1500 signatures and the additional 45% at the polls that ARE NOT IN FAVOR OF THIS.

I have YET to see people so much in favor of this project that they formed a group.......DESTROY ICE MOUNTAIN...with the exception of Gamesa and their lackeys who are receiving money from this corporate rapist.

Other than Terry Hyde, Mr. Bumgardner and the Gamesa gang, do you know of anyone who has expressed support for the windplant?

[Fightin' Irish]

Most of the general public who are not in the "know" and reading this nicey, nicey, propaganda contained in these articles will wonder why, after reading all that nicey, nicey stuff, our council would do such a thing by voting NO.
Maybe, just maybe, if they stand up to this company and give them an absolute NO... people will start paying attention, and begin to understand, why they voted NO!!!

That's exactly what the Logan Township Planning Commission did. Close to 60 people spoke up AGAINST the proposed Chestnut Flats Wind Farm (Horseshoe Curve) during a public hearing last month. Only one person spoke in favor of it. And that was in spite of Logan Township being offered close to $100,000 annually by Gamesa for the proposed windplant!

I find it bothersome that the Tyrone Borough Council never organized a public hearing about the Ice Mt windplant proposal. That seems to be the standard procedure in other municipalities. This is particularly worrisome in light of the irregularities at the polling stations regarding the informal windplant poll. Salaman can tell you all about that.

I couldn't agree more IceMan...and honestly...it feels like a slap in the face. I do not live in the borough, but I swear if I did I would be "rippin a fit" with MY council. If a lease is signed and this all takes place I would STRONGLY encourage all of you that do live in the borough.........to get rid of that council.


While Gamesa keeps summing it all up with a figure at the polls...they fail to mention the petition with 1500 signatures and the additional 45% at the polls that ARE NOT IN FAVOR OF THIS.

I have YET to see people so much in favor of this project that they formed a group.......DESTROY ICE MOUNTAIN...with the exception of Gamesa and their lackeys who are receiving money from this corporate rapist.

Why no public hearing? The answer is obvious! You can't manipulate the results of a public hearing!

[My2Cents]

Not only that but taking up the front page of the Saturday Herald... "Gamesa Project Developer ANSWERS wind farm concerns," "JF sits down with the Daily Herald for Q&A." It is beyond me to even waste time commenting on this atrocious act propaganda!! I cannot, in all my heart, believe that our own hometown newspaper would actually publish something so one sided..... it is pathetic !!! Wonder what's in it for the Herald ???
Why didn't our newspaper reporter sit down with the educators, the professionals, and the many others in the know about the potential disaster awaiting this community. Including everything else that is involved with this take over. Why didn't he sit down with them and ask them questions and put all that on the front page too ???
Remember all the crap put out to the public, such as.. "providing 15,000 homes with clean electricity?" People in this area still automatically assume it's 15,000 homes in this area and they have NEVER out and out been told otherwise.... people in this community STILL think their electric bills are going to come down once these things are in place.. they have never been told otherwise.
NOW, some of their original wording is changing..... now, they are saying or, in this case adding words, (see second paragraph Q&A session) "15,000 homes with clean energy outside of the area." Talk about trying to read between the lines to keep up with their BS... they also changed their web site and took out a lot of things that was in there originally.

[My2Cents]

OMG... there is so, so, much hitting the "fan" it's difficult to keep up with it all..... did you guys see where they intend to make these blades LONGER and LIGHTER ??
ROFLOL, think about that circus !!! Wonder if they intend to bring them into here to try out ??

[Something to say]

Most of the general public who are not in the "know" and reading this nicey, nicey, propaganda contained in these articles will wonder why, after reading all that nicey, nicey stuff, our council would do such a thing by voting NO.
Maybe, just maybe, if they stand up to this company and give them an absolute NO... people will start paying attention, and begin to understand, why they voted NO!!!

That's exactly what the Logan Township Planning Commission did. Close to 60 people spoke up AGAINST the proposed Chestnut Flats Wind Farm (Horseshoe Curve) during a public hearing last month. Only one person spoke in favor of it. And that was in spite of Logan Township being offered close to $100,000 annually by Gamesa for the proposed windplant!

I find it bothersome that the Tyrone Borough Council never organized a public hearing about the Ice Mt windplant proposal. That seems to be the standard procedure in other municipalities. This is particularly worrisome in light of the irregularities at the polling stations regarding the informal windplant poll. Salaman can tell you all about that.

I couldn't agree more IceMan...and honestly...it feels like a slap in the face. I do not live in the borough, but I swear if I did I would be "rippin a fit" with MY council. If a lease is signed and this all takes place I would STRONGLY encourage all of you that do live in the borough.........to get rid of that council.


While Gamesa keeps summing it all up with a figure at the polls...they fail to mention the petition with 1500 signatures and the additional 45% at the polls that ARE NOT IN FAVOR OF THIS.

I have YET to see people so much in favor of this project that they formed a group.......DESTROY ICE MOUNTAIN...with the exception of Gamesa and their lackeys who are receiving money from this corporate rapist.

Other than Terry Hyde, Mr. Bumgardner and the Gamesa gang, do you know of anyone who has expressed support for the windplant?

NOPE. Tyrone is known for its support of their sporting events and their band....but for the most part the people keep to themselves and trust their council to do what is right for them. However, THIS ISSUE has people concerned like none other before. And the shame of it is...They did their part...in as much as most of them will do ....by signing a petition ...and council doesn't seem to be listening.

[My2Cents]

Way to go gang !!! I love ya all !!! :thumb:

[no-it-all]

The windmill vote failed. with a tie vote 3-3 -Grazier,Werner, and Bryan voting yes; and Kosoglow Hanzir and Kilmartin voting no....Latchford abstained and Stoner is in the hospital.Does not pass!

[sammie]

Two of the no votes were not because they wanted to preserve Ice Mountain, but rather they wanted to get a better offer. The third no vote was for unexpressed reasons.

[kayaker-one]

The windmill vote failed. with a tie vote 3-3 -Grazier,Werner, and Bryan voting yes; and Kosoglow Hanzir and Kilmartin voting no....Latchford abstained and Stoner is in the hospital.Does not pass!

I thought it noteworthy that Kosoglow explained before the vote that he was not voting against wind on Ice Mountain. He said that Casselberry, the engineer, said the ecological risk is minimal, so that was not a concern of his. Rather, his vote of "no" was actually against Gamesa's proposal. He felt that the Council should wait until their 5 year agreement with Gamesa was up in 2 years, and then see what the other wind companies would offer. He knows there are 14 other wind companies in PA now, he wants to negotiate with them in 2 years to get a better deal than what Gamesa is offering.

Kilmartin also explained his "no" vote in advance, by saying that he wants to wait for a better deal.

Sometimes the right thing happens for the wrong reason....

My question is this: What is this 5 year agreement that the Council has with Gamesa and did they receive any money from Gamesa for this agreement?

[no-it-all]

It was a 2 year lease for testing that the boro got a few thousand for a temporary tower to monitor the wind; but GAMESA kept the sole right to develope for 5 years if the boro consented, which they didn't yet.

[SoccerMom]

I'm excited about the vote, regardless of it's basis. A lot can happen in two years, who knows, if the tax subsidies end, these companies may be out of the picture. Here's the article in today's Mirror:

Tyrone tie vote kills wind farm

By Greg Bock, gbock@altoonamirror.com
POSTED: January 13, 2009 Save | Print | Email | Read comments | Post a comment

TYRONE - A tie vote by Tyrone Borough Council means wind turbines won't be going up on Ice Mountain - at least for now.

"Half the town's going to be pleased," said Mayor Jim Kilmartin, one of three who voted against leasing borough watershed land to wind energy developer Gamesa USA. "Half the town will be unpleased."

Councilmen Mark Kosoglow and Steve Hanzir also voted against moving ahead with the project that would put 15 to 20 wind turbines on the mountain as part of Gamesa's Sandy Ridge Wind Farm.

Kosoglow said prior to the vote that he wasn't against wind power development on the 3,800-acre watershed.

"I'm voting no to this particular deal,'' Kosoglow said, adding that he was aware of 14 other wind developers in the state and the borough's interests would best be served by waiting.

Because the borough signed a five-year option with Gamesa, the earliest the borough could begin soliciting other proposals is 2011.

Gamesa's latest offer to the borough would pay at least $7,000 per wind turbine plus possible royalties.

Kosoglow believes the borough can find a better deal than the one that would pay $3 million to $5 million over a 30- year span.

Kosoglow said the borough should ride out the last two years of that agreement and then ''shop it.''

Councilwoman Jen Bryan, who along with Councilwoman Virgie Werner and Councilman Jim Grazier voted in favor of Gamesa's proposal, said the issue isn't dead.

''It can be revisited,'' Bryan said.

Because Councilman Bill Latchford said a year ago that he would abstain from any vote on Gamesa because of its business ties with his employer, Penn State's Applied Research Laboratory, it was assumed that the eight-member council wouldn't have a motion die because of a tie.

Last week, Councilwoman Pat Stoner was hospitalized and unable to attend Monday's planned vote. While no one was willing to speculate Monday on how Stoner would have voted, it's expected that the agreement will come up for a vote again soon.

"I think we'll be looking to see what council wants to do next month,'' said Josh Framel, Gamesa's project manager for the Sandy Ridge Wind Farm.

Kilmartin said he also was interested in seeing what other offers await the borough but admitted Gamesa's proposal probably would come up for a vote again.

''It may,'' he said. ''We'll see.''

Resident Dave Panasetti said he agreed that the borough probably could make out better should other firms be allowed to compete for the rights to build the turbines.

With a change of an administration in Washington and a likely increased push for ''green energy,'' Panasetti said he believes Tyrone's opportunities in finding a wind developer willing to pay more are going to increase with time.

"At least everybody is thinking,'' Panasetti said, adding that he was impressed with the way council has taken on the issue.

Mirror Staff Writer Greg Bock is at 946-7446.

[Ice Man]

Hi folks,

A nerve-racking Tyrone Borough Council meeting tonight, as they voted on Gamesa’s project. I’m smiling, so I think you know the result. For more details, keep reading.

Laura

Meeting Recap:

Tyrone Borough Council voted on Gamesa's Ice Mountain Wind Project tonight after 3 long years of studying Gamesa's offers and then listening to the science behind protecting the area from industrial wind.

Dave Bonta, long-time resident of Tyrone and VP of Juniata Valley Audubon Society spoke from the heart tonight when he explained that his family was offered a wind lease for their 2 ½ miles of ridgeline, but turned it down because they appreciate what they have, exemplified by the golden eagles which fly over their mountain, right in the same zone as the rotator blades of turbines, it they were to be built. He said his family is not wealthy, so they understand the temptation to sign.

He also explained that Highland Conservancy in WV did an in-depth study and found that wind will not stop the region from being mined for coal. The problems with acid rain won't go away because of wind development.

Wind is embraced by some environmental groups because they see it as a technofix that won't sacrifice our lifestyles, when we should really be conserving.

He concluded by emphasizing that he doesn't want to lose the golden eagles.

Josh Framel, Gamesa developer, also spoke and told the Council he hoped they would continue to work together.

Another citizen pleaded with the Council to vote against the project if they had the slightest concerns about the impact of the wind project on the watershed.

A motion was made by a Council member to accept Gamesa's Lease (when it is in final form).

Council Members who voted yes: James Grazier, Jennifer Bryan, and Virgie Werner
Council Members who voted no: James Kilmartin, Steve Hanzir, and Mark Kosoglow

Bill Latchford upheld his promise to abstain from the vote, citing "possible conflict of interest"

Kilmartin declared, “Vote is tied, so the motion fails!”


I thought it noteworthy that Kosoglow explained before the vote that he was not voting against wind on Ice Mountain. He said that Casselberry, the engineer, said the ecological risk is minimal, so the ecological impact was no concern. Rather, his vote of "no" was actually against Gamesa's proposal. He felt that the Council should wait until their 5 year agreement with Gamesa was up in 2 years, and then see what the other wind companies would offer. He knows there are 14 other wind companies in PA now, he wants to negotiate with them in 2 years to get a better deal than what Gamesa is offering.

Kilmartin also explained his "no" vote in advance, by saying that he wants to wait for a better deal. Steve Hanzir did not explain why he voted "no".

It is interesting to think about the psychology behind their explanation. Although they voted "no", Kosoglow and Kilmartin can still say:
• they support wind, they just want a better project
• they have the economics of the community in mind, and are waiting for a better project
• they listened to the people; the wind project is just on hold until they get a better offer from a different company

Regardless, Gamesa's project is dead for now! A small, but sweet victory for ICE MOUNTAIN.

1. Council intends to vote again on this soon, perhaps as early as next month.
2. Casselberry and Associated did a hydrological assessment of the Ice Mt watershed. The firm did not do any ecological assessment. Ecology is not hydrology.