Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

[yertle]

Wind turbine destroyed after 'octopus UFO' seen in sky
By Matthew Moore from the telegraph.co.uk

An octopus-shaped UFO was reported flying through the air hours before a wind turbine was destroyed in mysterious circumstances.

Dozens of residents claimed to have seen bright flashing spheres is the skies near Louth, Lincolnshire, where a 290ft turbine was mangled in a mystery collision.

One woman said she saw an object fly towards the wind farm, while others described the lights as being linked by "tentacles", leading locals to dub it the octopus UFO.

Dorothy Willows, who lives a mile and a half from the crash site, said: "The lights were moving across the sky towards the wind farm. Then I saw a low flying object. It was skimming across the sky towards the turbines."

Later on Sunday night, one of a turbine's 65ft blades was ripped off and another severely damaged.

The Health and Safety Executive described the damage as a "unique incident", and the energy firm Ecotricity which owns the 20-turbine site say it has no explanation.

"We are struggling to find an answer, yes, and it has been quite interesting to read the reports in the press about what people have seen," Dale Vince from the company told BBC Radio Four's Today programme..

"It sounds unbelievable but actually we don't have any explanation at the moment.

"Give us a few days and if there is a rational explanation we will find it."

Robert Palmer, chairman of East Lindsey District Council, was among the dozens of people who reported seeing strange lights in the sky in the evening before the incident. Another witness, John Harrison, described looking at the farm out of his window and seeing "a massive ball of light with tentacles going right down to the ground".

UFO enthusiasts have described the incident as potentially one of the most significant encounters in years, and have called for the damaged parts to be tested to uncover the cause of the collision.

A more down-to-earth theory is that the turbine was damaged due to the build up of ice on the blades.

The Ministry of Defence said that it did not investigae UFO sightings unless there was evidence of a potential threat to the UK.

[zapatista]

Getting on Council to push only one agenda sounds like such a wonderful cause to serve the entire community. We will see how far that goes when it comes down to the hard decisions of telling someone who has a child that would benefit from a parking space in front of their home but whom has off street parking and they can not have that wanted handicap parking space, or maybe the tough ones like tax increases. There is a great deal more to this small wonderful community than a mountain 4 miles away. I can honestly say that nothing ticks me off more than when people try or succeed at getting on Council and don't care about anyone else problems but their own. You must care about the entire community. You are not even looking at what the financial benefits are to a small community of putting a Wind Farm on a mountain 4 miles away would do for it. We on Council have been told by more than just one person or company that there is minimal risk to our watershed if a proposed Wind Farm were put into place. This would not be the only watershed with a Wind Plant in place on it. No one knows what the future holds...unless there are some psychics on this board I was unaware of.

When are you up for re-election?

[My2Cents]

yertle, one correction in the above; the blades are 140 feet long ( so they can hold more ice )... hey, they are even talking about making them
"Longer and Lighter"... didn't they do that to Virginia Slims one time ?? Anyway, don't cha think maybe these people were lookin' and seeing lightening ??? These things are very prone to lightning strikes ya know. I mean, you know... you know ?? Was it raining ?? Details, we need details !!

[salaman]

yertle, one correction in the above; the blades are 140 feet long ( so they can hold more ice )... hey, they are even talking about making them
"Longer and Lighter"... didn't they do that to Virginia Slims one time ?? Anyway, don't cha think maybe these people were lookin' and seeing lightening ??? These things are very prone to lightning strikes ya know. I mean, you know... you know ?? Was it raining ?? Details, we need details !!

There has been a huge increase in the occurrence of turbine fires over the last two years, probably due to the misguided proliferation of new windfarms. These fires have been attributed to both lightning strikes and overheated gearboxes. At the first Gamesa forum two years ago I showed a photograph of a turbine on fire to one of their reps. He told me that they don't catch on fire and that the pic was photo-shopped. I considered that a bald faced marketing lie (not the only time that I believe Gamesa has lied to me).

I wonder if Tyrone Council would consider the possibility of a forest fire in the watershed a serious matter? Any fire on Ice Mountain would be very difficult to combat. The terrain is steep, rugged and access is limited. Imagine a fire on a windy day in April before the leaves are out on the trees, it would be devastating. I remember the forest fire in the Sproul SF back in the 80's. It became an incredible fire storm that fed on itself. The only thing that stopped it was the Susquehanna River. Maybe a fire storm would be good....the inrush from the draft would really get those turbine blades spinning.

[salaman]

BTW Gamesa stock is down 9% today.

[zapatista]

I wonder if Tyrone Council would consider the possibility of a forest fire in the watershed a serious matter? Any fire on Ice Mountain would be very difficult to combat. The terrain is steep, rugged and access is limited. Imagine a fire on a windy day in April before the leaves are out on the trees, it would be devastating. I remember the forest fire in the Sproul SF back in the 80's. It became an incredible fire storm that fed on itself. The only thing that stopped it was the Susquehanna River. Maybe a fire storm would be good....the inrush from the draft would really get those turbine blades spinning.

There is a great deal more to this small wonderful community than a fire on a mountain 4 miles away.
Council was told by more than just one person or company that there is minimal risk of fire to Ice Mountain if a proposed Wind Farm were put into place.
Besides, this would not be the only mountain with a fire on it.
Kindly put away your crystal ball and keep your prognosticating to yourself.

-

[Bill Latchford]

I wonder if Tyrone Council would consider the possibility of a forest fire in the watershed a serious matter? Any fire on Ice Mountain would be very difficult to combat. The terrain is steep, rugged and access is limited. Imagine a fire on a windy day in April before the leaves are out on the trees, it would be devastating. I remember the forest fire in the Sproul SF back in the 80's. It became an incredible fire storm that fed on itself. The only thing that stopped it was the Susquehanna River. Maybe a fire storm would be good....the inrush from the draft would really get those turbine blades spinning.

There is a great deal more to this small wonderful community than a fire on a mountain 4 miles away.
Council was told by more than just one person or company that there is minimal risk of fire to Ice Mountain if a proposed Wind Farm were put into place.
Besides, this would not be the only mountain with a fire on it.
Kindly put away your crystal ball and keep your prognosticating to yourself.

-

You are the funny one aren't you? - Glad you can find the humor in it...I know it is sarcasm, but really it is oh to easy for you.

[DonkeyHoagie]

Like fishing shoots out of a barrell.

So what if it does burn a mountain down? More room for a hotel.

:flag:

[watcher]

Sorry to repeat myself, yet again, but I still don't understand why if Ice Mountain is in Snyder Township, and Snyder Township has banned windmills, then why is it Tyrone Council has authority? The irony of the whole thing to me is that they keep saying, "Only people within Tyrone have a say!" and yet, the entire place they're planning to put them is outside town!!! Is anyone else still confused by this? It just gives me a tremendous headache when I try to understand it...sorry....

[My2Cents]

There has been a huge increase in the occurrence of turbine fires over the last two years, probably due to the misguided proliferation of new windfarms. These fires have been attributed to both lightning strikes and overheated gearboxes. At the first Gamesa forum two years ago I showed a photograph of a turbine on fire to one of their reps. He told me that they don't catch on fire and that the pic was photo-shopped. I considered that a bald faced marketing lie (not the only time that I believe Gamesa has lied to me).
I wonder if Tyrone Council would consider the possibility of a forest fire in the watershed a serious matter? Any fire on Ice Mountain would be very difficult to combat. The terrain is steep, rugged and access is limited. Imagine a fire on a windy day in April before the leaves are out on the trees, it would be devastating. I remember the forest fire in the Sproul SF back in the 80's. It became an incredible fire storm that fed on itself. The only thing that stopped it was the Susquehanna River. Maybe a fire storm would be good....the inrush from the draft would really get those turbine blades spinning.

Zapatista, DonkeyHoagie...We don't need a crystal ball, we have the facts before us and we know that each turbine holds 200 gallons of oil (that has been known to leak I might add), we know that these turbines are prone to lightening strikes and a forest fire can ensue very quickly as a result. Prognosticating.... this is a GOOD thing, since we know what is in store if these things are given a go-ahead.
BTW, I believe, Ice Mountain is closer than 4 miles.... that doesn't matter, what matters is the fact that it belongs to our community.
A forest fire is a forest fire... no matter how near, or how far....
Taking a chance on any forest fire, anywhere, should be avoided at all cost.

[My2Cents]

Sorry to repeat myself, yet again, but I still don't understand why if Ice Mountain is in Snyder Township, and Snyder Township has banned windmills, then why is it Tyrone Council has authority? The irony of the whole thing to me is that they keep saying, "Only people within Tyrone have a say!" and yet, the entire place they're planning to put them is outside town!!! Is anyone else still confused by this? It just gives me a tremendous headache when I try to understand it...sorry....

Long story short and without all the details..... Ice Mountain is Tyrone Boro Property.

[Bill Latchford]

There has been a huge increase in the occurrence of turbine fires over the last two years, probably due to the misguided proliferation of new windfarms. These fires have been attributed to both lightning strikes and overheated gearboxes. At the first Gamesa forum two years ago I showed a photograph of a turbine on fire to one of their reps. He told me that they don't catch on fire and that the pic was photo-shopped. I considered that a bald faced marketing lie (not the only time that I believe Gamesa has lied to me).
I wonder if Tyrone Council would consider the possibility of a forest fire in the watershed a serious matter? Any fire on Ice Mountain would be very difficult to combat. The terrain is steep, rugged and access is limited. Imagine a fire on a windy day in April before the leaves are out on the trees, it would be devastating. I remember the forest fire in the Sproul SF back in the 80's. It became an incredible fire storm that fed on itself. The only thing that stopped it was the Susquehanna River. Maybe a fire storm would be good....the inrush from the draft would really get those turbine blades spinning.

Zapatista, DonkeyHoagie...We don't need a crystal ball, we have the facts before us and we know that each turbine holds 200 gallons of oil (that has been known to leak I might add), we know that these turbines are prone to lightening strikes and a forest fire can ensue very quickly as a result. Prognosticating.... this is a GOOD thing, since we know what is in store if these things are given a go-ahead.
BTW, I believe, Ice Mountain is closer than 4 miles.... that doesn't matter, what matters is the fact that it belongs to our community.
A forest fire is a forest fire... no matter how near, or how far....
Taking a chance on any forest fire, anywhere, should be avoided at all cost.

Maybe we should cut the trees down since they to, are a conduit for wild fires...Go ask the people in California. Lighting hitting a Turbine or Lighting hitting a tree both have the potential for causing a wild fire. The people that put the Turbines up know that lighting takes the path of least resistance, so yes the Turbines are a better target. For that reason they ground them really well, to send the lighting strike to the ground without causing damage to the Turbine. That is why some people put lighting rods on their house. So if their house gets hit they hope for most of the energy to go into the ground. Does it work all the time, I doubt it. But to say that there is no chance of a wild fire on a mountain to be caused by a lighting strike to a tree would be false.

[My2Cents]

You took that all around the circle Bill and the bottom line to your above post.... nobody said, or even implied, "there is no chance of a wild fire on a mountain caused by a lightening strike to a tree." Now, I'm not getting into, lightening, lightening rods, groundings, or the physics thereof.... common sense tells me that these things stick high above the forest canopy, which is why they are "highly prone to lightning strikes". Grounded or not, sparks fly !!!! Being grounded may save the turbine... if anything.
Now, if there were no turbines, and lightening strikes a tree... it could happen... it could cause a fire no doubt about it. But, most of the time the forest protects itself.
I guess, in summery; Lightening storm +forest canopy= a better chance of it not causing a problem...
whereas, Lightening storm + forest canopy+ one of these things (filled with 200 gallons of oil) sticking very high above the canopy (grounded or not) = an attraction for lightening and a receipe of potential disaster.

[Ice Man]

Sorry to repeat myself, yet again, but I still don't understand why if Ice Mountain is in Snyder Township, and Snyder Township has banned windmills, then why is it Tyrone Council has authority? The irony of the whole thing to me is that they keep saying, "Only people within Tyrone have a say!" and yet, the entire place they're planning to put them is outside town!!! Is anyone else still confused by this? It just gives me a tremendous headache when I try to understand it...sorry....

Land use in any municipality is governed by federal, state, and local regultions.

There are no federal or (in PA at least) state regulations governing windplants specifically. In PA, windplants are regarded just like any other development (e.g.: Logan Town Centre, I-99, a factory, a housing development, etc.). The only federal requirements for such developments is for a National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System permit (NPDES permit) - which governs erosion and sedimentation - and Endangered Species Act considerations. There are no federally endangered species on Ice Mt. Remember that any development needs an NPDES permit. I-99 got one. Logan Town Centre got one. Just because a development gets an NPDES permit doesn't mean it's benign. The DEP and the local conservation district are involved with this permit as is the Army Corps of Engineers.

In PA, the major control over windplant siting lies with the local municipality; i.e. the township. The Borough of Tyrone owns almost 4,000 acres on Ice Mountain and may or may not want to site a windplant there. However, Ice Mt is in Snyder Twp and Snyder Twp's windplant ordinance, like those of neighboring Antis and Tyrone Townships (as well as Allegheny Twp) prohibits industrial windplants in Important Bird Areas (IBAs). Ice Mt is part of the Allegheny Front IBA.

A NO vote to the windplant proposal indicates that Tyrone Borough accepts Snyder Township's regulation or that Tyrone Borough is not interested in a windplant on Ice Mt. A YES vote to the windplant proposal indicates that Tyrone Borough intends to contest Snyder Township's windplant ordinance.

[watcher]

Thanks for explaining that Ice Man! So, just to play the devil's advocate here, how exactly is it possible for them to contest Snyder Township's authority in this case? It seems that this is worthy of our attention if it's a possible way of not having windmills placed in a naturally protected area, correct?