Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Anything in our community you would like to discuss? Post it here.
User avatar
Bill Latchford
MVP Member
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2002 2:09 pm
If Mike has 13 apples, and gives six to Jane, how many does he have left?: 13
Location: Tyrone, Pa
Contact:

Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Bill Latchford »

Guy Fawkes wrote:What is the opinions of the Ice Mountain Protectors on the private land owner placing a eight foot high game fence around their 800 acres of Ice Mountain, where was the outcry over the fragmentation of Ice Mountian on this issue. Now for most of you it's no big deal because the birds and bats can fly over the fence, but the animals that are stuck firmly on terra firma this could end up an biological disaster for Ice Mountain and the surrounding area. That scar down the face of the mountain is just as much an eyesore to me as the windmiills to others in the community. If you are going to protect Ice Mountain do it for all land owners and not just the ones that you can grandstand at public meetings.
- I was trying to figure out what had happened there. That is horrible...Did anyone know that was going to happen? At least with the Turbines you wouldn't see the scar from the road. They would only look like they came out from above the tree tops. I was used to seeing the Mae's house on the front of the mountain, but how can a fence make such a mess? How could someone believe that that was some special mountain with that huge ugly scar on it? What was the purpose of the fence, and I am assuming that is permanent? Does anyone have any information on what that does to the quality of the mountain? It sure is heck didn't help the beauty of the mountain at all. Well I guess I am lost on this one...just seems that would be a slap in the face after all the effort you all have been putting into trying to save the mountain. Guess we will see what the leaves on the trees will do to cover up that scar. :eek:
Ice Man
MVP Member
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:56 am

Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Ice Man »

Bill Latchford wrote:
Guy Fawkes wrote:What is the opinions of the Ice Mountain Protectors on the private land owner placing a eight foot high game fence around their 800 acres of Ice Mountain, where was the outcry over the fragmentation of Ice Mountian on this issue. Now for most of you it's no big deal because the birds and bats can fly over the fence, but the animals that are stuck firmly on terra firma this could end up an biological disaster for Ice Mountain and the surrounding area. That scar down the face of the mountain is just as much an eyesore to me as the windmiills to others in the community. If you are going to protect Ice Mountain do it for all land owners and not just the ones that you can grandstand at public meetings.
- I was trying to figure out what had happened there. That is horrible...Did anyone know that was going to happen?
No, other than the landowner.
Bill Latchford wrote: How could someone believe that that was some special mountain with that huge ugly scar on it?
I don't understand your question. If you're referring to "special mountain" as Ice Mt's designation as a Blair County Natural Heritage Area, then the ecologists who did the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory for the Blair County Planning Commission are the ones who designated Ice Mt as a "special place" based on scientific criteria. Ice Mt is the ONLY site in western Blair County that is designated as a "County Natural Heritage Area of exceptional conservation value. " We've gone over this topic ad nauseam, so reread the last 155 pages if you don't get it. Also read the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory, Snyder Township portion, at http://www.naturalheritage.state.pa.us/ ... 202006.pdf
Bill Latchford wrote: What was the purpose of the fence, and I am assuming that is permanent?
You'd have to ask the landowner. Constructing and maintaining such a fence takes lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$.
Bill Latchford wrote: Does anyone have any information on what that does to the quality of the mountain? It sure is heck didn't help the beauty of the mountain at all. Well I guess I am lost on this one...just seems that would be a slap in the face after all the effort you all have been putting into trying to save the mountain. Guess we will see what the leaves on the trees will do to cover up that scar. :eek:
I agree with you about the fence, but it is insignificant when compared with 14 miles of heavy duty roadway connecting 25 400-foot-tall wind turbines, substations, transmission lines, accessory buildings, etc. Because SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN is a volunteer organization, we have to pick our battles carefully. All of us have jobs and family responsibilities. Unlike Gamesa reps, we are not being paid to "grandstand" at public meetings. None of us gets any direct benefit from our activities regarding Ice Mountain.
My2Cents
MVP Member
Posts: 1132
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 2:49 pm
If Mike has 13 apples, and gives six to Jane, how many does he have left?: 13
Location: Tyrone, PA

Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

:huh: ... is this good or bad ?? Is all this legit ?? What fence ?? What scar?? How bad ?? Could it be associated in any way, or have anything to do with that "tower" that was placed up there ?? A fence ?? :shock: Someone had to haul all that stuff up there. Were trees cut down or what ?? An 8 foot high game fence placed around 800 acres of Ice Mountain ?? Wouldn't you think the people living around that area, or the forester, would see that going on.. it could not have happened over night ?? How could someone do this without being seen ?? Why would somebody do this ?? 8 foot high, 800 acres... instillation would cost money, the fence itself would cost a lot of money. Sometingwong....... :rolleyes:
User avatar
Bill Latchford
MVP Member
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2002 2:09 pm
If Mike has 13 apples, and gives six to Jane, how many does he have left?: 13
Location: Tyrone, Pa
Contact:

Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Bill Latchford »

Ice Man wrote:
Bill Latchford wrote: How could someone believe that that was some special mountain with that huge ugly scar on it?
I don't understand your question. If you're referring to "special mountain" as Ice Mt's designation as a Blair County Natural Heritage Area, then the ecologists who did the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory for the Blair County Planning Commission are the ones who designated Ice Mt as a "special place" based on scientific criteria. Ice Mt is the ONLY site in western Blair County that is designated as a "County Natural Heritage Area of exceptional conservation value. " We've gone over this topic ad nauseam, so reread the last 155 pages if you don't get it. Also read the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory, Snyder Township portion, at http://www.naturalheritage.state.pa.us/ ... 202006.pdf
Sorry...the comment was not formed properly....I meant to say it would be hard to convince someone that knows nothing about ecology that the mountain was of such a value with that huge scar and house on it's face. I know the house has been there, but that scar is pretty new I believe.
User avatar
Bill Latchford
MVP Member
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2002 2:09 pm
If Mike has 13 apples, and gives six to Jane, how many does he have left?: 13
Location: Tyrone, Pa
Contact:

Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Bill Latchford »

My2Cents wrote::huh: ... is this good or bad ?? Is all this legit ?? What fence ?? What scar?? How bad ?? Could it be associated in any way, or have anything to do with that "tower" that was placed up there ?? A fence ?? :shock: Someone had to haul all that stuff up there. Were trees cut down or what ?? An 8 foot high game fence placed around 800 acres of Ice Mountain ?? Wouldn't you think the people living around that area, or the forester, would see that going on.. it could not have happened over night ?? How could someone do this without being seen ?? Why would somebody do this ?? 8 foot high, 800 acres... instillation would cost money, the fence itself would cost a lot of money. Sometingwong....... :rolleyes:
- All great questions and concerns My2Cents
My2Cents
MVP Member
Posts: 1132
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 2:49 pm
If Mike has 13 apples, and gives six to Jane, how many does he have left?: 13
Location: Tyrone, PA

Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

P.S. Who owns the 800 acres ??
Ice Man
MVP Member
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:56 am

Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Ice Man »

Bill Latchford wrote:
Ice Man wrote:
Bill Latchford wrote: How could someone believe that that was some special mountain with that huge ugly scar on it?
I don't understand your question. If you're referring to "special mountain" as Ice Mt's designation as a Blair County Natural Heritage Area, then the ecologists who did the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory for the Blair County Planning Commission are the ones who designated Ice Mt as a "special place" based on scientific criteria. Ice Mt is the ONLY site in western Blair County that is designated as a "County Natural Heritage Area of exceptional conservation value. " We've gone over this topic ad nauseam, so reread the last 155 pages if you don't get it. Also read the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory, Snyder Township portion, at http://www.naturalheritage.state.pa.us/ ... 202006.pdf
Sorry...the comment was not formed properly....I meant to say it would be hard to convince someone that knows nothing about ecology that the mountain was of such a value with that huge scar and house on it's face. I know the house has been there, but that scar is pretty new I believe.
The house was there when the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory was done (2001-2006). The fence was not. Both the house and fence are symbols of the owner's hubris, but they are not comparable to 14 miles of heavy-duty roadway, turbine clearings, 400-foot-tall turbines with 140-foot-long whirling blades, substations, transmission lines, accessory buildings, etc. Just because one person damaged the forest doesn't mean that it's OK for the Borough to do so. The Borough, as a public entity, is held to a higher standard than a private individual. The Borough of Tyrone holds Ice Mountain in trust for all the people of the Borough. Because Ice Mt is a Blair County Natural Heritage Area of exceptional conservation value as well as a municipal watershed, the Tyrone Borough Council has stewardship responsiblity over this land, as expressed so eloquently by Mayor Jim Kilmartin in his public message a few pages back. It's obvious that the Mayor, at least, takes this stewardship responsibility seriously.
Ice Man
MVP Member
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:56 am

Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Ice Man »

My2Cents wrote:P.S. Who owns the 800 acres ??
Don't know for sure, but somebody told me it belongs to Mr. Richard Baumgardner (ex-Snyder Twp Planning Commission member), who is leasing the land to Gamesa. Mr. Baumgarder is one of two people who have spoken out publicly in favor of the Sandy Ridge Wind Farm (the other is Terry Hyde).
Last edited by Ice Man on Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My2Cents
MVP Member
Posts: 1132
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 2:49 pm
If Mike has 13 apples, and gives six to Jane, how many does he have left?: 13
Location: Tyrone, PA

Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

:rolleyes: Hummmmm...
sandstone
MVP Member
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 1:09 am
If Mike has 13 apples, and gives six to Jane, how many does he have left?: 13
Location: Sinking Valley

Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by sandstone »

sandstone wrote:
Bill Latchford wrote:I am actually working on something that had come up a long time ago that might satisfy many persons at one time. I just have to wait for SandStone or IceMan to get back to me. The need for green i.e Ecology and Dollars.
Council VP Latchford and I are working on a POSSIBLE resolution to this impasse, one that will bring $$$$ to the Borough of Tyrone while preserving Ice Mountain in its natural state. Can't provide more details at this time, but it could be a win-win situation for SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN and the borough. We will keep you posted. :D
I am sad to report that there is little interest among Tyrone Borough Council in the resolution that Councilman Latchford and I had been hoping for. :(

Please make your opinion known to your Borough Council members INDIVIDUALLY. Thank Mayor Kilmartin, Councilman Kosoglow, and Councilman Hanzir for voting to save Ice Mountain from conversion into an industrial windplant. Let Councilpersons Werner, Grazier, and Bryan know that you are displeased with their votes opposed to saving Ice Mountain. Send Councilwoman Pat Stoner a get-well-soon card and let her know that you want to SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN.

Gamesa will be back, SOON, demanding another vote. That is their modus operandi. Just observe their behavior in Logan Township, Shaffer Mountain, etc, and you get the idea.
Ice Man
MVP Member
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:56 am

Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Ice Man »

sandstone wrote:
Gamesa will be back, SOON, demanding another vote. That is their modus operandi. Just observe their behavior in Logan Township, Shaffer Mountain, etc, and you get the idea.
That is for sure. Gamesa will demand votes until Gamesa gets the result it wants.
Something to say
MVP Member
Posts: 486
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:42 pm

Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Something to say »

sandstone wrote:
sandstone wrote:
Bill Latchford wrote:I am actually working on something that had come up a long time ago that might satisfy many persons at one time. I just have to wait for SandStone or IceMan to get back to me. The need for green i.e Ecology and Dollars.
Council VP Latchford and I are working on a POSSIBLE resolution to this impasse, one that will bring $$$$ to the Borough of Tyrone while preserving Ice Mountain in its natural state. Can't provide more details at this time, but it could be a win-win situation for SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN and the borough. We will keep you posted. :D
I am sad to report that there is little interest among Tyrone Borough Council in the resolution that Councilman Latchford and I had been hoping for. :(
Please make your opinion known to your Borough Council members INDIVIDUALLY. Thank Mayor Kilmartin, Councilman Kosoglow, and Councilman Hanzir for voting to save Ice Mountain from conversion into an industrial windplant. Let Councilpersons Werner, Grazier, and Bryan know that you are displeased with their votes opposed to saving Ice Mountain. Send Councilwoman Pat Stoner a get-well-soon card and let her know that you want to SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN.

Gamesa will be back, SOON, demanding another vote. That is their modus operandi. Just observe their behavior in Logan Township, Shaffer Mountain, etc, and you get the idea.

It's hard to comment on the endeavor you and Bill were comtemplating without knowing what it was....but......apparently you took it to council? Were none of the members interested, or just 3?


Yup...Gamesa is like a bad weed in the garden that just keeps popping up. They will keep coming back until they get what they want. The only way to get rid of the weed is to uproot it. < Werner, Grazier, and Bryan > Got a Spade Shovel???
< Pat Stoner > Does anyone know of her condition and if she is feeling better? Also...how and where can we send the letters asking her to vote NO ?
Ice Man
MVP Member
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:56 am

Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Ice Man »

Something to say wrote: < Pat Stoner > Also...how and where can we send the letters asking her to vote NO ?

Councilwoman Pat Stoner
Borough of Tyrone
1100 Logan Avenue
Tyrone, PA 16686
salaman
Member
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:05 am

Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by salaman »

Ice Man wrote:
Something to say wrote: < Pat Stoner > Also...how and where can we send the letters asking her to vote NO ?

Councilwoman Pat Stoner
Borough of Tyrone
1100 Logan Avenue
Tyrone, PA 16686
Sent mine!
sammie
Member
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:51 am

Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by sammie »

What happens to the 50% of the volatile organic compounds that the oxidizer will not destroy? Sounds like Ms. Vislosky is no Gamesa fan.

http://www.windaction.org/news/19840

Gamesa to install equipment at plant

February 4, 2009 by Christian Menno in Bucks County Courier Times

Despite the impending layoff of 184 blade production employees, Gamesa Inc. will install new equipment at its Falls plant as it moves forward with other areas of production.

Falls Supervisors Robert Harvie, Jim Prokopiak and Jonathan Snipes approved a land development waiver Tuesday to allow the Spanish wind turbine manufacturer to install a 1,440-square-foot concrete pad, which will serve as a base for a regenerative thermal oxidizer. Philip Szupka voted no and Dorothy Vislosky abstained.

Szupka and Vislosky did not give detailed reasoning behind their votes but have expressed opposition to most projects dealing with the Keystone Opportunity Improvement Zone where Gamesa is located.

According to Darius Rogers, head of Gamesa's environmental department, the oxidizer will destroy about 50 percent of the volatile organic compounds emitted from the facility.

The installation of the equipment is the result of a negotiated settlement agreement between Gamesa and the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection that was signed in August.

The DEP discovered several violations at the plant and Gamesa was forced to pay $639,161 in state penalties. A compliance consent order was issued to ensure the installation of the oxidizer.


"We are complying with the federal government on schedule," Rogers said.

Rogers did not know the exact cost of the equipment but said it could run anywhere between $500,000 and $1 million.

Prokopiak said this move was a good sign, indicating that the company intends to operate in Falls. Thomas Hecker, attorney for Gamesa, said the company will consolidate its blade manufacturing with another location. The Falls plant will focus on producing engine housings, called nacelles.

Vislosky, however, was skeptical of Gamesa's intentions.

"Even if you invested $1 billion here, we still haven't seen a dime in tax dollars," she said. "So basically, you polluted and got caught. I don't believe anything that Gamesa says."


Gamesa was established in 2006 in the KOIZ, a tax-free zone meant to encourage redevelopment.

Prokopiak said the several hundred jobs that the company created since it came to Falls, along with costly permit fees, has made it an asset to the community.

He estimates that the total amount of permit fees paid by Gamesa at close to $800,000.

"If they didn't come to the KOIZ," he added, "that location would be a ghost town."

Web link: http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/courier_time...
Post Reply