Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

[Bill Latchford]

Now take this math to the other side....If I recall you all had 1500 signatures, with most being from the 16686 area code. I do not recall but did anyone ever really go through the petition to find out how many were Tyrone Borough residents? We have been at this for a long time so I could not remember. I was thinking that someone at one point thought there were like 600 Tyrone Borough citizens. Lets assume that since these persons were so inclined to sign a petition, maybe we can assume that better than 3/4 of them would also be voters since they showed so much interest in Borough affairs. I think that still points out to be about right for the turnout they had for voting at the primary. I also did not do well in math, as you can tell by my rounding everything and assuming certain things. Just thought I would see if there was another way to look at the numbers. Now of course I am running it this way because I think the last number I had heard was like 600 persons on the petition were actual Borough residents. If that number is different then just ignore my post, which most people do anyhow .

[Ice Man]

Now take this math to the other side....If I recall you all had 1500 signatures, with most being from the 16686 area code. I do not recall but did anyone ever really go through the petition to find out how many were Tyrone Borough residents? We have been at this for a long time so I could not remember. I was thinking that someone at one point thought there were like 600 Tyrone Borough citizens. Lets assume that since these persons were so inclined to sign a petition, maybe we can assume that better than 3/4 of them would also be voters since they showed so much interest in Borough affairs. I think that still points out to be about right for the turnout they had for voting at the primary. I also did not do well in math, as you can tell by my rounding everything and assuming certain things. Just thought I would see if there was another way to look at the numbers. Now of course I am running it this way because I think the last number I had heard was like 600 persons on the petition were actual Borough residents. If that number is different then just ignore my post, which most people do anyhow .

The number of borough signers sounds accurate but your assumptions are invalid:

You assume that 3/4 were voters. Where'd the 3/4 come from? Do they show an interest in ALL borough affairs or just Ice Mountain? Has the borough ever received a petition for ANYTHING with 1,500 signatures?

The problem with the informal poll is that it was an informal poll. It's accuracy is unverifiable. It was done by high school students. It was done unevenly throughout the precincts. The results could have been altered by the poll takers. Worst of all, it was presented to and by the media as a vote. More people signed the petetion than the total number of YES and NO poll responders!!!!!!!

Talk to salaman. He was there. He'll talk your ear off about the unprofessional poll!

Every other municipality in which a windplant was proposed held a PUBLIC HEARING. Why was there no PUBLIC HEARING in Tyrone? Was it because the results of a public hearing cannot be falsified?

PUBLIC HEARING Logan Twp: 80 opposed to windplant; 1 in favor of windplant

PUBLIC HEARING Tyrone Twp: 120 opposed to windplant; 0 in favor of windplant

PUBLIC HEARING Allegheny Twp: 14 opposed to windplant; 0 in favor of windplant

[Something to say]

Now take this math to the other side....If I recall you all had 1500 signatures, with most being from the 16686 area code. I do not recall but did anyone ever really go through the petition to find out how many were Tyrone Borough residents? We have been at this for a long time so I could not remember. I was thinking that someone at one point thought there were like 600 Tyrone Borough citizens. Lets assume that since these persons were so inclined to sign a petition, maybe we can assume that better than 3/4 of them would also be voters since they showed so much interest in Borough affairs. I think that still points out to be about right for the turnout they had for voting at the primary. I also did not do well in math, as you can tell by my rounding everything and assuming certain things. Just thought I would see if there was another way to look at the numbers. Now of course I am running it this way because I think the last number I had heard was like 600 persons on the petition were actual Borough residents. If that number is different then just ignore my post, which most people do anyhow .

Bill...please ...lol....if we're gonna conjure up hypothesis...lets try this one...lol.



WHAT If......none of the "600" that signed the petition voted in the informal poll? What if....... all 600 were republicans.......had no reason to show up at the democratic primary.....and didn't bother just dropping by because they felt they already did their part in signing a petiton..... Yanno what ya have in that hypothesis, don't ya? 600 people AGAINST the windplant.....in addition to 45% of the people polled <-------using that term loosely, btw.....tah dah!!! 1100 Tyrone Citizens Against the Wind Plant. WE CAN DO THIS ALL DAY BILL. I once received a 4.2 on a paper I wrote at Penn State ........ an arguement between myself and Socrates. And really... I don't feel like entertaining this issue today, so lets just call it what it was...A FARCE.

Bottom line....... TYRONE WAS NOT GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE ON THIS WINDPLANT. AND THAT STUPID POLL WAS JUST THE EXCUSE COUNCIL USED TO GO FULL STEAM AHEAD WITH THEIR OWN AGENDA.

I believe you, all council members, have really damaged your reputations this past few months and I believe that it's gonna haunt ya. And the shame of it is...GAMESA BAMBOOZLED YA...they played you like instruments. Rendell too. I wonder how he'll be remembered in the text books.

[Ice Man]

Now take this math to the other side....If I recall you all had 1500 signatures, with most being from the 16686 area code. I do not recall but did anyone ever really go through the petition to find out how many were Tyrone Borough residents? We have been at this for a long time so I could not remember. I was thinking that someone at one point thought there were like 600 Tyrone Borough citizens. Lets assume that since these persons were so inclined to sign a petition, maybe we can assume that better than 3/4 of them would also be voters since they showed so much interest in Borough affairs. I think that still points out to be about right for the turnout they had for voting at the primary. I also did not do well in math, as you can tell by my rounding everything and assuming certain things. Just thought I would see if there was another way to look at the numbers. Now of course I am running it this way because I think the last number I had heard was like 600 persons on the petition were actual Borough residents. If that number is different then just ignore my post, which most people do anyhow .

AND THAT STUPID POLL WAS JUST THE EXCUSE COUNCIL USED TO GO FULL STEAM AHEAD WITH THEIR OWN AGENDA.

I believe you, all council members, have really damaged your reputations this past few months and I believe that it's gonna haunt ya. And the shame of it is...GAMESA BAMBOOZLED YA...they played you like instruments. Rendell too. I wonder how he'll be remembered in the text books.

I agree. Tyrone Borough Council needed the cover of the poll to vote YES, so they created a poll with the necessary results to give them cover.

Every other municipality in which a windplant was proposed held a PUBLIC HEARING. Why was there no PUBLIC HEARING in Tyrone? Was it because the results of a public hearing cannot be falsified?

PUBLIC HEARING Logan Twp: 80 opposed to windplant; 1 in favor of windplant

PUBLIC HEARING Tyrone Twp: 120 opposed to windplant; 0 in favor of windplant

PUBLIC HEARING Allegheny Twp: 14 opposed to windplant; 0 in favor of windplant

[One lone voice]

There are 3,348 registered voters in the Tyrone Boro. A lot of them are Independents who cannot vote in a primary, and a lot were Republicans who didn't see the need to in a Democratic primary, considering that their candidate was already decided. The high school kids who were set up outside the polling places looked more like they were there for a bake sale than anything. If one of the kids outside my polling place hadn't identified himself and why they were there, I wouldnt have known, and would have just walked on by. Since you were required to show them your voting receipt in order to "vote" in the informal poll, the Independents and the Republicans who didn't vote were totally left out. If there were only a little over 1000 voters who answered the "poll", that left over 2000 Boro registered voters who didn't get the chance to give their opinions.
Oh, by the way, just who tallied the "poll" anyhow?

[My2Cents]

There are 3,348 registered voters in the Tyrone Boro. A lot of them are Independents who cannot vote in a primary, and a lot were Republicans who didn't see the need to in a Democratic primary, considering that their candidate was already decided. The high school kids who were set up outside the polling places looked more like they were there for a bake sale than anything. If one of the kids outside my polling place hadn't identified himself and why they were there, I wouldnt have known, and would have just walked on by. Since you were required to show them your voting receipt in order to "vote" in the informal poll, the Independents and the Republicans who didn't vote were totally left out. If there were only a little over 1000 voters who answered the "poll", that left over 2000 Boro registered voters who didn't get the chance to give their opinions.
Oh, by the way, just who tallied the "poll" anyhow?

Thank You !!! This is exactly, one of many things, that needed to be pointed out and told to council before a vote was cast. I'm not sure, I do believe that council, (along with a few others) tallied the poll.... not too sure however. The 11PM, TV news, showed them standing in the background smiling and laughing as though it was a big weight off their shoulders. You could almost see the "whew," from them, coming thru the TV screen !!! Sad, very sad !!!

[My2Cents]

I'm confused on the protocol about when we have to change the name of the football team from Tyrone Golden Eagles to the Tyrone Golden Windmills...is it before or after they start tearing the mountain apart?

In quoting this turbine company; "Once the lease is signed, they will then complete their construction plans and present them to council." In other words, once the lease is signed... they will do this... they will THEN complete their construction plans... they had almost 3 years to complete construction plans.... council should know all the facts concerning construction plans before signing the lease.... but, that most likely won't happen. A lease will be signed, before everything is finalized, they will complete there construction plans, present them to council.... if council doesn't like what they see..... too bad, the lease was already signed and council no longer will have any say-so !!! If and when this happens, "one lone voice," you could probably consider changing the name then.
All along this company has changed it's wording of things in it's web site and letters... quite a few things involves reading between the lines. To the unknown, or someone who hasn't been following this fiasco, one would never notice. They once had an animated picture of what they determined would be the "noise decibals" around different areas of the hollows.... that picture is gone.... they removed it from their web site!! They are also claiming to want to put 25 turbines in..... on that same anamated picture that is now removed, there were 30 turbines showing. Logan Township spoke up and put a stop to these people, this company tried to sweet talk them into adding more saying that the original amount wouldn't be sufficient. Is that going to happen here who knows. 30 years!!?? A turbin life expectancy is only 8 to 10 years, what is wrong with this picture folks ??!! There is so much wrong with this picture. As I mentioned in the "PD" thread, we are not against wind turbines... clean energy is needed ASAP... we are against wind turbines being put on Ice Mountain or anywhere else in this area.... for the many proven reasons that has been noted throughout this thread.

[My2Cents]

About the only thing I can see that might possibly have Gamesa's name attached to it in any way would be the initial $250K that we get for singing. That money is intended for the community in the way of projects. So about the only thing Gamesa would have to do with even that money is maybe something that says, who knows maybe "This Project Funded with a grant from Gamesa” That is a hypothetical application.

Forgive me, please forgive me... I should be the last one to zero in on someone else's spelling or other composition type error's. I do apologize Bill... this is all in fun, I just could not let this alone... I'm sure paybacks will be you know what. According to what I read above, you are going to get an initial $250K for singing !!?? You know, earlier this week I thought I heard someone singing out there... now I know where it was coming from. I thought at first they were singing, "On Top Of Old Smoky," but, the longer I listened... the tune was the same, but, the lyrics were changed... maybe it was an OdeTo Ice Mountain... it sounded something like this; Ready, Ah one, and Ah 2, and Ah3....
For $250K.... sing baby sing...

On top of Ice Mountain,
All covered with trees...
We learned our first lesson,
'Bout the birds and the bees.
We would hike to the ridge tops,
To enjoy the view...
With the sun shining brightly,
And the sky, oh, so blue.
Nothing has changed much,
except for the view...
Now we have turbines,
Where Eagles once flew.

I'm sure there was more to this, but, a cement truck went by, a blade fell off another truck, and all was drownded out. Does anybody know the rest of that $250K song ??

[One lone voice]

My2Cents, you have some serious talent going on there. Maybe you should go on "Idol", and let the rest of the country know our plight.?

[My2Cents]

Thanks, but, I would rather go "Dancing With The Stars," or at least take a chance with "Survivor."
With my luck, I would go "Idol" and get "Lost."

[newcouncilmember]

That was a great song maybe you could donate the proceeds from your song to the borough council so that they can spend the way they want to. As they are going to do with the windmill money.

[My2Cents]

Which is another sore spot !! Before any money is spent for anything the people should be informed first and be allowed to voice their opinion on that subject also. Rec Center, Schmeck Center.... somehow, some way, we can always build a Rec Center!!
If we allow this company to come in here and devistate Ice Mountain , put our watershed at risk, and ruin our very forest canopy and all that live within forever, they should be made to pay us for something we absolutely HAVE to HAVE as a community. This town NEEDS flood control !!! If they want to hand us money they should be required to pay for the complete cost of having someone come in here and implimenting flood control. If they don't agree then there should be no deals made !!! Rec Center ??!! How embarrassing !!! We sold a mountain for a Rec Center.... Oh, pleeeezzz !! How totally embarrassing and stupid is that ????

[Bill Latchford]

About the only thing I can see that might possibly have Gamesa's name attached to it in any way would be the initial $250K that we get for singing. That money is intended for the community in the way of projects. So about the only thing Gamesa would have to do with even that money is maybe something that says, who knows maybe "This Project Funded with a grant from Gamesa” That is a hypothetical application.

Forgive me, please forgive me... I should be the last one to zero in on someone else's spelling or other composition type error's. I do apologize Bill... this is all in fun, I just could not let this alone... I'm sure paybacks will be you know what. According to what I read above, you are going to get an initial $250K for singing !!?? You know, earlier this week I thought I heard someone singing out there... now I know where it was coming from. I thought at first they were singing, "On Top Of Old Smoky," but, the longer I listened... the tune was the same, but, the lyrics were changed... maybe it was an OdeTo Ice Mountain... it sounded something like this; Ready, Ah one, and Ah 2, and Ah3....
For $250K.... sing baby sing...

On top of Ice Mountain,
All covered with trees...
We learned our first lesson,
'Bout the birds and the bees.
We would hike to the ridge tops,
To enjoy the view...
With the sun shining brightly,
And the sky, oh, so blue.
Nothing has changed much,
except for the view...
Now we have turbines,
Where Eagles once flew.

I'm sure there was more to this, but, a cement truck went by, a blade fell off another truck, and all was drownded out. Does anybody know the rest of that $250K song ??

My2Cents - I totally understand the fun in your post here...It is fine...I for one enjoy a grand sense of humor...But just so it is known I totally understand the seriousness and never once taken lightly you all's passion for this topic. Take Care, Bill

[Something to say]

There are 3,348 registered voters in the Tyrone Boro. A lot of them are Independents who cannot vote in a primary, and a lot were Republicans who didn't see the need to in a Democratic primary, considering that their candidate was already decided. The high school kids who were set up outside the polling places looked more like they were there for a bake sale than anything. If one of the kids outside my polling place hadn't identified himself and why they were there, I wouldnt have known, and would have just walked on by. Since you were required to show them your voting receipt in order to "vote" in the informal poll, the Independents and the Republicans who didn't vote were totally left out. If there were only a little over 1000 voters who answered the "poll", that left over 2000 Boro registered voters who didn't get the chance to give their opinions.
Oh, by the way, just who tallied the "poll" anyhow?

I'd be interested in knowing the answer to that question as well. I remember reading one of the articles in the paper and Councilwoman Pat Stoner said in order to make sure things were done fairly....members of Save Ice Mountain should be included in tallying the votes.

I personally believe members of Save Ice Mountain should have been invited to man the tables too.

Does anyone know?

Yanno....I ..finally ... realized something. I'm exhausted with this whole ordeal. I've chaired committees, chaired councils, sat on boards, and was President of the Adult Association while in college. I don't ever recall being this disappointed in any of those arenas. I'm reminded of a line from my favorite comic.....YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.

If the shoe fits, wear it. I know I'll be wearing mine for a very long time. Its been real folks!

[My2Cents]

:huh: ...I'm sure you're tired, disgusted... the whole nine yards. Take a break but please don't go too far away.