Today I'm thankful for Sups Diehl & Nelson...... I was in a very awkward situation.....was asked a pesty question......to which I had no suitable answer. I reached wayyy back in the recesses of my mind ...struggling.....searching...trying to find some excuse that would suffice......then it suddenly dawned on me.....tah dah! I now have new standard replies when I'm stuck or clueless
Hey Something to say... did you forget your scheduled appointment again? This is the second time you've missed.
Umm...well...umm..I....err....oh yeah.. It doesn't matter because I hunt and I know more about Ice Mountain than anyone. Thanks for calling! Bye Bye!
Honey....what's for dinner?
"chicken" Yuck..I'd much rather have beef.
"Oh well...chicken is necessary because that's the way its gonna be!"
" Besides I wasn't there when they brought the chicken to the store...and if ya don't like it...trucks come and go there all the time!"
Crikey...... I couldn't be happier :bluebounce: No more stumbling...searching for words...making excuses....all I have to do is look people in the eye......puff myself up ....and spew out those borrowed words of wisdom. YeeeFreakinHawwww!!!!
Sts, is all this because youze said so, or, " mr. I " said so ??!! Who said so ??!! Whose mr "I" ?? Somebody out there said mr " I " told everyone he said so, and if " mr I " said so then I guess it doesn't matter any more 'cause "mr " I '' is in charge here and is about to destroy the mountain for the children !!!
My2Cents wrote: ....
Whodathunk that 2 people, who didn't do their homework or even listen to the facts, would have the power to cause the distruction of a mountain and all the creatures great and small that fly above and live within it ??!! Their children and grandchildren should be so proud, they will have something to ride their 4 wheelers on... Wonder what they are going to do when their favorite hunting (killing) season comes along....hummmmm, guess they will have to revert to buying their own water and eating Gypsy Moths !!! WOW, what a future !!!
Whoaaa be very careful My2cents....you're on dangerous ground here. The next thing ya know you'll have folks accusing you of being a tree-hugging, nature loving, animal enthusiast. Some folks get really ticked when they think others view their sport as a murderous rampage on nature's defenseless critters. Oh wait...did I say defenseless? Shame on me....they DO have legs.
I don't want any repercussions about the "murderous rampage remark" so let me clarify. Years ago I toted my winchester 30/30 into the woods and "hunted" deer...or the shotgun for the big-bearded turkey...but I'd like to think it was peer pressure...haha. When my ex-husband hunted and we took the deer to be butchered each year..... I became sensitive, humane? If you're hungry....hunt. But I just think its meaningless to go out into their habitat...where they feel safe.....and blow them away so you can get your picture in the paper or hang their rack on the wall. ( I mean its not like you can't get a good piece of meat at the supermarket ) For all we know dogs might taste good as well...but are ya gonna kill them? And for the sake of all that's holy......don't fancy yourself as the great white hunter. I mean really........what sport is there in taking a high powered rifle into the woods and shooting an animal. I mean...c'mon the odds are against them...lol. It's not like you're special because you Bagged the Big One. h*ll...any idiot could sit in a blind and knock off a few deer a day.
And the mindset that seems to come along with it....
You know, before all this started, I never realized I was any of those.... I guess I assumed most people appreciated what beauty we have right here in our little corner of the world. Now, because of this, we have all aquired lables (BTW you forgot "opponent") from those in charge and about to destroy what God has given us. "Long may they reign above....Those Alleganey's fair.... May they ever shelter thee...." Does that sound familiar ??? Our very own Alma Mater, written years ago and passed on from generation to generation throughout the years. I'm quite sure, most of what we have is taken for granted.... there are still many people who have never been away from the area so they can't compare the beauty we have here with anything else.... yet, they judge 'cause they're in charge and they say so.... yep !!!!
:flag: thank u supervisor Charles Diehl and supervisor Robert Nelson we need the wind mills the ones on hear talking must not no that if u would have voteed no the win mills set back tyrone was sell buting 16 upon ice mountain because it was voteed on lasted novber and the people of tyrone wanted the winmills over half of tyrone voteed yes in lasted nover election.
:rolleyes: Ummm......well, I'm dumbfounded. Great minds think alike I suppose. I'm certain Supervisors Diehl and Nelson completely understand your logic, Tom.
TOM111378 wrote::flag: thank u supervisor Charles Diehl and supervisor Robert Nelson we need the wind mills the ones on hear talking must not no that if u would have voteed no the win mills set back tyrone was sell buting 16 upon ice mountain because it was voteed on lasted novber and the people of tyrone wanted the winmills over half of tyrone voteed yes in lasted nover election.
:huh:
Let me tell you what the ones on here posting DO know. We know that wind power might be a viable alternative if windplants are PROPERLY PLACED. We know Ice Mountain is an area that should have NEVER EVEN BEEN CONSIDERED for the placement of a windplant. We know that Tyrone's governing body took the easy way out and voted the windplant in for one reason....MONEY.
I can't speak for anyone else but if you ask me .....Tyrone Borough Council along with Snyder Twnshp Supervisors slapped their constituents in the face with the most arrogant act imaginable...completely going against the wishes of the majority.
And not only did they slap their constituents in the face...they mocked RESEARCHERS who spent long hours studying the dynamics of Ice Mountain. Supervisor Diehl made the most ridiculous claim throughout this whole ordeal when he said, "I hunt and I know Ice Mountain better than anyone." It's that kind of attitude that has given small town America a reputation that others find hysterical. Clearly obvious why we've been referred to as rat-faced pea brains in the past. :nuts:
TOM111378 wrote::flag: thank u supervisor Charles Diehl and supervisor Robert Nelson we need the wind mills the ones on hear talking must not no that if u would have voteed no the win mills set back tyrone was sell buting 16 upon ice mountain because it was voteed on lasted novber and the people of tyrone wanted the winmills over half of tyrone voteed yes in lasted nover election.
:huh:
Let me tell you what the ones on here posting DO know. We know that wind power might be a viable alternative if windplants are PROPERLY PLACED. We know Ice Mountain is an area that should have NEVER EVEN BEEN CONSIDERED for the placement of a windplant. We know that Tyrone's governing body took the easy way out and voted the windplant in for one reason....MONEY.
I can't speak for anyone else but if you ask me .....Tyrone Borough Council along with Snyder Twnshp Supervisors slapped their constituents in the face with the most arrogant act imaginable...completely going against the wishes of the majority.
And not only did they slap their constituents in the face...they mocked RESEARCHERS who spent long hours studying the dynamics of Ice Mountain. Supervisor Diehl made the most ridiculous claim throughout this whole ordeal when he said, "I hunt and I know Ice Mountain better than anyone." It's that kind of attitude that has given small town America a reputation that others find hysterical. Clearly obvious why we've been referred to as rat-faced pea brains in the past. :nuts:
In support of the above statement, I offer this letter which was sent last year (Similar letters were sent to each of the Tyrone Borough Council members and each of the Snyder Township supervisors, and to the Snyder Township planning commission before that commission was dissolved. In addition, representatives from SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN have made dozens of official appeals at Tyrone Borough Council meetings and Snyder Township meetings, as well as writing dozens of letters to the editor and even organizing a SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN community forum at TAHS in the spring of '08. For the record, SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN has been actively opposing the proposed Sandy Ridge Wind Farm since the spring of 2006):
To the editor;
SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN is troubled by the Tyrone Borough Council's track record of ignoring Ice Mountain's designation as a Blair County Natural Heritage Area. Not once has any Tyrone Borough Council member publicly addressed the severe impact that a proposed industrial windplant would have on this County Natural Heritage Area, which is described as an area that is "unique" and "of exceptional conservation value" in the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory that was done under the direction of the Blair County Planning Commission 5 years ago and accepted by the Blair County Commissioners 2 years ago. This official Blair County document may be viewed at http://www.naturalheritage.state.pa.us/ ... 202006.pdf
There is growing consensus among the scientific community that ridgetop industrial windplants pose significant threats to Pennsylvania's natural heritage. As a matter of fact, a recent statement by the Pennsylvania Biological Survey described the impact of industrial winplants in ridgetop forested settings as "severe." The US Fish and Wildlife Service describes three broad impacts of industrial windplants: direct mortality of birds and bats, the inducement of avoidance behavior, and forest fragmentation. The Pennsylvania Game Commission describes the Allegheny Front, of which Ice Mountain is a part, as a "high risk site" for industrial windplant development. Dr. Keith Bildstein, director of conservation at world-famous Hawk Mountain, writes that these "high risk" sites should be off-limits to industrial windplant development. Dr. Todd Katzner of the National Aviary has demonstrated through radiotelemetry that Ice Mountain is on the major eastern golden eagle migratory route and he states that the golden eagle, Tyrone High School's mascot, is the species most at risk from industrial windplant development.
An industrial windplant on Ice Mountain would require the carving out of many miles of new heavy-duty roadway to construct and service the two dozen gargantuan industrial wind turbines that Gamesa plans to construct west and north of Tyrone. The Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory specifically states that the construction of roads should be avoided in this County Natural Heritage Area.
This proposed extensive road network has substantial ecological costs, including increased erosion, chemical and thermal water pollution, spread of invasive exotics, and forest fragmentation. Such impacts extend out to 300 yards on either side of a road creating a “road-effect zone.” Road-related habitat fragmentation is a huge problem in Pennsylvania and it is getting worse by the day as more roads are built in contiguous forests.
When roads reach a certain density (miles of road per area of land) an ecological threshold is reached whereby sensitive wildlife species begin to show signs of stress or avoidance of otherwise suitable habitat. Ecological thresholds related to roads have been noted for aquatic systems as well: roads disrupt hydrologic flow, alter
streamside habitat, fragment aquatic habitat, and reduce water quality.
Ice Mountain and the County Natural Heritage Area of which it is a part contain irreplaceable reservoirs of wildlife habitat and perform many valuable ecological services diminished by roads and other developments that degrade natural landscapes. Ecosystem services that are diminished by roads and associated uses include the provision of essential habitat for species of conservation concern, the provision of a broad array of habitat types, the provision of “buffer areas” from exotic species invasions and edge effects, the provision of refugia for road sensitive species, the provision of landscape and regional connectivity; and the provision of strongholds for trout and other coldwater species in Sink Run, Decker Run, and Big Fill Run (all of which would be impacted by the Sandy Ridge Wind Farm).
Three years of debate have failed to deter the windplant developer from this destructive project because the developer's decisions have been based on a lack of understanding of the values that Blair County Natural Heritage Areas provide for our county. In fact, the developer ignores or dismisses Ice Mountain's status in the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory.
We expect that Ice Mountain, a unique Blair County Natural Heritage Area of exceptional conservation value, will be managed to the highest ecological standard, and will be protected from further degradation. It is not possible to respect Ice Mountain's status as a County Natural Heritage Area and then vote "yes" to convert it into an industrial windplant. SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN asks that each Tyrone Borough Council member acknowledge Ice Mountain's status as being unique and of exceptional convervation value and therefore vote "no" to the industrial windplant proposal.
Stan Kotala, M.D.
Spokesman
SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN (a coalition of the 1,500 unaffiliated signatories of the petition opposing the industrial windplant on Ice Mountain, the Little Juniata River Association, Juniata Valley Audubon, and the Sinking Valley Watershed Association)
RD 4
Tyrone, PA
Sadly SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN's appeals fell on some deaf ears, those of decision-makers who do not respect science, who do not respect Blair County's natural heritage, who do not respect the wishes of their constituents, and who worship money above all else.
SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN thanks those decision-makers who stood with the majority and who showed respect for the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory and who had the courage to stand up for what is right. They are Tyrone Mayor Jim Kilmartin, Tyrone Borough Councilman Steve Hanzir, and Snyder Township Supervisor Jim Burket.
why should ice mounting never been CONSIDERED they have them up near bulenob i hunt up there i got a nice deer there last year i hunted up on ice mounting the eagels i could hear them but never seen them they was 2 far in the air as far as your 1500 signatories there more then 1500 people in tyrone and Snyder Township so why did they not sing it .and at the sndyer town ship meeting i was there i bet there was not more then my be 60 people there. and at lest half was there about the adddress thing but i do live in tyrone and i live near ice mounting .
TOM111378 wrote:why should ice mounting never been CONSIDERED they have them up near bulenob i hunt up there i got a nice deer there last year i hunted up on ice mounting the eagels i could hear them but never seen them they was 2 far in the air as far as your 1500 signatories there more then 1500 people in tyrone and Snyder Township so why did they not sing it .and at the sndyer town ship meeting i was there i bet there was not more then my be 60 people there. and at lest half was there about the adddress thing but i do live in tyrone and i live near ice mounting .
Tom...the above post states ALL the reasons why there shouldn't be a windplant on Ice Mountain. You heard the eagles? You said you didn't see them because they were too far up in the air...well guess what else it wayyyy far up in the air? Turbines...which is exactly why turbines are bad news for eagles. 1500 people signed a petition AGAINST the wind plant...how many came to the meetings or did ANYTHING in support of the wind plant? Two maybe? I'm not going to argue this point with you anymore.....I choose not to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person, ok? Take Care... Nice chatting with you.
TOM111378 wrote:why should ice mounting never been CONSIDERED they have them up near bulenob i hunt up there i got a nice deer there last year i hunted up on ice mounting the eagels i could hear them but never seen them they was 2 far in the air as far as your 1500 signatories there more then 1500 people in tyrone and Snyder Township so why did they not sing it .and at the sndyer town ship meeting i was there i bet there was not more then my be 60 people there. and at lest half was there about the adddress thing but i do live in tyrone and i live near ice mounting .
Tom...the above post states ALL the reasons why there shouldn't be a windplant on Ice Mountain. You heard the eagles? You said you didn't see them because they were too far up in the air...well guess what else it wayyyy far up in the air? Turbines...which is exactly why turbines are bad news for eagles. 1500 people signed a petition AGAINST the wind plant...how many came to the meetings or did ANYTHING in support of the wind plant? Two maybe? I'm not going to argue this point with you anymore.....I choose not to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person, ok? Take Care... Nice chatting with you.
I attended the last Snyder Twp sups meeting where sups Diehl and Nelson voted to ignore the township's own windplant ordinance and allow Gamesa to build turbines in Important Bird Areas. During this meeting, former Snyder Twp Planning Commission Chairman Bob Ayers reminded sup Diehl that a few years ago a petition with 350 signatures opposing zoning in the township was presented to the supervisors and sup Diehl said that it showed that "the people have spoken and they don't want zoning." Mr. Ayers then asked sup Diehl why the petition opposing Gamesa's project on Ice Mt, which has 1,500 signatures, should be less significant. Sup Diehl responded "It doesn't matter because I hunt and I know Ice Mt better than anyone." :huh: :nuts:
:nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts:
Gamesa’s Dan Noble wrote a ridiculous piece in the Johnstown Tribune several weeks ago, extolling their efforts to protect Shaffer Mountain (isn’t that a scream?).
Dr. Dennis McNair, biology professor at UPJ, has written a rebuttal that was printed in today’s Tribune. His analogy of the wife beater is especially good.
Laura
Here is his Op-Ed:
Dan Noble suggests that the Shaffer Mountain wind project represents a model of environmental concern (“Wind farms are subjected to strict development guidelines,” Tribune-Democrat, April 22). Gamesa’s industrial wind turbine installation proposal must meet the minimum guidelines that apply to any large scale construction project, no more and no less. Meeting those legal requirements is portrayed as if Gamesa were a paragon of environmental consciousness. That is analogous to a man claiming to be a model husband because he hasn’t yet beaten his wife badly enough to be arrested.
In fact, the application was rejected twice and is now being allowed a third submission to try to address DEP’s persistent objections. An 8 page long Deficiency Letter from DEP on March 17, 2009 cites unacceptable plans for restoration of disrupted streams, an undisclosed timber disturbance, improper labeling and scaling of the construction site drawing, inadequate documentation of approval by the Federal Aviation Administration, etc.
Gamesa hasn’t satisfactorily met its legal obligation to consult with the Pennsylvania Natural Diversity Inventory. This is especially egregious because of presence of state and federally endangered Indiana Bats at the site. Unaddressed discrepancies exist between Gamesa’s paid, single-season survey of migratory Golden Eagles and data gathered independently over several years at the Allegheny Front Hawk Watch. Gamesa has chosen to minimize or ignore threats to bats, eagles, and other migratory birds throughout the permitting process, collecting meager amounts of data only after the insistence of permitting agencies. Despite Noble’s implication of collaboration with US Fish and Wildlife and the PA Game Commission, Gamesa has not committed to meeting criteria suggested by USFW and has signed only nonbinding agreements with the Game Commission. Failure to meet state or federal criteria carries no penalty. Gamesa might have the “highest regard for natural resources,” as Noble stated, but they have done nothing beyond the absolute letter of the law to protect them. As evidenced by their failed applications, they have yet to do even that.
Stating that landowners have agreed to “host” the turbines implies that the people living on Shaffer Mountain approve of the project. However, the major “host” is the Berwind Corporation, a corporate absentee landowner, not a local inhabitant. The people living there have consistently shown great hostility toward this project, as evidenced by the number of protest signs lining area roads. Nearly all the citizens who live nearby, hunt, and enjoy Shaffer Mountain oppose the inevitable environmental destruction.
Damage caused by turbine and road construction, movement of construction equipment and maintenance vehicles, cleared and fenced off areas, soil compaction and erosion, invasion of exotic plant and animal life, and disruption of exceptional value streams are just some of the obvious threats to the area’s natural beauty. Our Allegheny Plateau has been economically exploited and despoiled repeatedly in the past. Logging and mining have left scars that are just now fading after decades of slow healing and laborious restoration.
The Commonwealth Constitution, Article 1 section 27, guarantees the right to “pure water and to the preservation of the natural, scenic, historic and esthetic values of the environment.” It further states “[a]s trustee of these resources, the Commonwealth shall conserve and maintain them for the benefit of all people.” This is a clear and explicit statement of our rights as citizens, the protection of which is the responsibility of state government. We are acutely aware that state agencies have neglected their constitutional responsibility to our region in the past, while allowing economic and political interests to run roughshod over us. We now reassert our right to protection of our natural heritage. Gamesa’s actions have repeatedly shown that they are insincere and their claims of concern are a transparent tissue of half-truths and misrepresentations.
It’s time for DEP to quit coaching them on how to patch up flawed permit applications, deny the permits for the Shaffer Mountain project, and begin preserving our natural heritage as the Constitution requires.
Sincerely,
Dr. Dennis McNair, University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown, Biology Dept.
TOM111378 wrote:why should ice mounting never been CONSIDERED they have them up near bulenob i hunt up there i got a nice deer there last year i hunted up on ice mounting the eagels i could hear them but never seen them they was 2 far in the air as far as your 1500 signatories there more then 1500 people in tyrone and Snyder Township so why did they not sing it .and at the sndyer town ship meeting i was there i bet there was not more then my be 60 people there. and at lest half was there about the adddress thing but i do live in tyrone and i live near ice mounting .
Tom...the above post states ALL the reasons why there shouldn't be a windplant on Ice Mountain. You heard the eagles? You said you didn't see them because they were too far up in the air...well guess what else it wayyyy far up in the air? Turbines...which is exactly why turbines are bad news for eagles. 1500 people signed a petition AGAINST the wind plant...how many came to the meetings or did ANYTHING in support of the wind plant? 50 maybe? I'm not going to argue this point with you anymore.....I choose not to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person, ok? Take Care... Nice chatting with you.
I attended the last Snyder Twp sups meeting where sups Diehl and Nelson voted to ignore the township's own windplant ordinance and allow Gamesa to build turbines in Important Bird Areas. During this meeting, former Snyder Twp Planning Commission Chairman Bob Ayers reminded sup Diehl that a few years ago a petition with 350 signatures opposing zoning in the township was presented to the supervisors and sup Diehl said that it showed that "the people have spoken and they don't want zoning." Mr. Ayers then asked sup Diehl why the petition opposing Gamesa's project on Ice Mt, which has 1,500 signatures, should be less significant. Sup Diehl responded "It doesn't matter because I hunt and I know Ice Mt better than anyone." :huh: :nuts:
:nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts:
