Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

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anarchyreign
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by anarchyreign »

ok people i have set here and read all this windmill stuff. for all those that oppose them on ice mt ,were are the windmills supposed to be built , the moon ??? c,mon its not the end of the world get off ur pc take a ride and see some ,oh by the way take ur camera and take some pics of the wild life on the recalimed roads around them . tyrone made some cash from them,snyder wasnt bright enough to get any money up front ,as far as i have heard so either come up with a place for the windmills to be built or quit complaining .... oh u folks could always run for office if u dont like ur local govt, ok i got that off my chest ..... till next time [[ question authority -trust no one]] :guns: :guns:
Something to say
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Something to say »

anarchyreign wrote:ok people i have set here and read all this windmill stuff. for all those that oppose them on ice mt ,were are the windmills supposed to be built , the moon ??? c,mon its not the end of the world get off ur pc take a ride and see some ,oh by the way take ur camera and take some pics of the wild life on the recalimed roads around them . tyrone made some cash from them,snyder wasnt bright enough to get any money up front ,as far as i have heard so either come up with a place for the windmills to be built or quit complaining .... oh u folks could always run for office if u dont like ur local govt, ok i got that off my chest ..... till next time [[ question authority -trust no one]] :guns: :guns:
I have an idea. How much property do you own.....maybe we could change Gamesa's mind and have the windplant built there on your ground. I'll go out today with my camera...maybe you could give me a clue where I might find recalimed roads. While I'm doing that you might want to get your nose in a book, precisely a dictionary, and learn the difference between "complaining about something" and "presenting research"...... :D

And believe me, lately I have done nothing but question authority...without mentioning names...... Council members Virgie Werner, Jennifer Bryan, James Grazier, Pat Stoner, and Mark Kosoglow as well as Snyder Township supervisors Charles Diehl and Robert Nelson. Oops.. I said I wasn't going to mention names. Oh well. I did it for the children.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Ice Man »

anarchyreign wrote: for all those that oppose them on ice mt ,were are the windmills supposed to be built , the moon ??? :
Please read at least the first 10 pages of this thread. Ice Mountain is a BLAIR COUNTY NATURAL HERITAGE AREA OF EXCEPTIONAL CONSERVATION VALUE. It was designated as such in the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory which was commissioned by the Blair County Planning Commission. It is the ONLY area in western Blair County to receive this designation. PLEASE TELL ME WHY IT IS NECESSARY TO PUT 25 INDUSTRIAL-SCALE WIND TURBINES IN AN AREA THAT MERITS THIS DESIGNATION?
anarchyreign wrote:c,mon its not the end of the world get off ur pc take a ride and see some ,oh by the way take ur camera and take some pics of the wild life on the recalimed roads around them :
Please read the following statement by the Pennsylvania Biological Survey, an organization of conservation professionals (perhaps they know more about wildlife conservation than you do):

"The environmental impacts of wind energy are considerable. Mortality to birds and bats has been of particular concern. Bat mortality from wind turbines has been particularly high, especially along forested ridge tops in the eastern United States.

Because bats generally have low reproductive rates, cumulative negative impacts of wind energy development on bat populations are likely (Kunz et al. 2007). Based on projections of installed wind capacity, it is estimated that by 2020 annual mortality in the mid-Atlantic highlands could be as high as 45,000 birds (National Research Council 2007) and 111,000 bats (Kunz et al. 2007).

With wind energy development expanding on private lands in Pennsylvania, the forested ridge tops of state-owned lands will become even more critical for birds, bats, and other species that utilize these habitats.

Another important, and often overlooked, impact of wind development is habitat fragmentation and its associated effects. These effects include reduced habitat area, habitat isolation and loss of species from an area, disruption of dispersal, increased edge effects and loss of core habitat, and facilitation of invasive species (Groom et al. 2006).

Due to their linearity, roads and transmission lines, both of which accompany wind energy development, have particularly pronounced fragmentation effects (Groom et al. 2006, Willyard et al. 2004).

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (2003) recommends that wind energy development “avoid fragmenting large, contiguous tracts of wildlife habitat” and advises that wind turbines be placed “on lands already altered or cultivated, and away from areas of intact and healthy native habitats.”
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by sandstone »

anarchyreign wrote: either come up with a place for the windmills to be built or quit complaining ....:
OK, as you requested:
http://www.jvas.org/cc_lwfbc.html

Lots of places that are not Blair County Natural Heritage Areas are suitable for windplants. Even more that are not designated as being "of exceptional conservation value" as Ice Mountain is. See http://www.naturalheritage.state.pa.us/ ... 202006.pdf

Satisfied?
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Ice Man »

Hi folks,

I just checked the FAA website, to get details on the Sandy Ridge project.

Gamesa has applied for 28 turbines.

I was surprised to see that each turbine is listed as 475 feet tall.

Each turbine's lat and long are listed, and there is a small topo map for each turbine location.

The FAA has not ruled yet, so we don't know if any of the turbine locations will be denied. Let’s keep our fingers crossed!

Laura

P.S.: The height of the turbines proposed for Ice Mountain is 70 feet taller than those near Blue Knob!

Ice Mountain will have the tallest wind turbines in our region towering over Tyrone. :jester:
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by SoccerMom »

Is wind energy a viable alternative?
07/04/2009

As the U.S. government continues to push for alternative energy sources, some residents are questioning whether some of the proposed projects in the Tri-County Area are "too good to be true."
Luthersburg residents Sharon and Gary Gilmore are taking a closer look at a proposed wind farm in Clearfield County.
"We're not anti-wind at all," Sharon Gilmore said. "We have some major concerns about the project and the more I read, the more concerns I have. We want people to make an informed decision."
According to a previously published Tri-County Sunday article, Iberdrola Renewables a company, which originated in Spain, is working to secure land lease agreements to construct a wind farm in the Luthersburg/Rockton/Sandy Ridge area. The company typically focuses on land which has already been cleared by strip-mining.
Although Iberdrola is best known for its wind energy, the company also provides natural gas storage and thermal generation.
The Gilmores said they had actually been searching for a company to put a wind mill or wind turbine on their property for quite some time when they received a letter from Iberdrola in June 2008. The Gilmores said they were sent a land lease contract and a meeting was held in the fall of 2008 by invitation only.
"We had a lot of concerns," Sharon Gilmore said. "I thought maybe I'm being a little extreme here. We missed the next meeting they had but I spoke to one of our neighbors who also had concerns and we decided to get going on this and do some research."
Gilmore said she thought a lot of the land owners were signing the contracts without having all the information. She said with any project, there are pros and cons. She said they were invited to the opening of the Cassleman Wind Farm in Somerset County and said the visit really "opened their eyes."
"It was foggy that morning and you couldn't really see the turbines at first," Gary Gilmore said. "When we did see them, we stopped to take a look."
"I thought we were near a highway," Sharon Gilmore said. "It sounded like a stream of cars doing about 60 miles per hour. It was a whoosh-whoosh-whoosh sound as the blades passed the tower." The Gilmores toured the site and spoke to some of the local residents who also were concerned about the noise.
After the visit, the Gilmores continued to research wind farms and eventually found Laura Jackson of "Save Our Allegheny Ridges." The Gilmores then invited Jackson to come speak to the residents about some of the issues which have been coming up surrounding the wind farms.
At that meeting, Jackson spoke of problems some residents living near wind farms had with low-frequency vibrations and low decibel noise as well as the sound of the blades passing the tower. Jackson said some hunters were reporting wildlife moving away from areas surrounding the wind farms as a result of the noise and low-frequency vibrations.
According to information provided by National Wind Watch Inc., physicians from England, Canada, and New Zealand have recorded common health symptoms among people living near industrial-scale wind turbines which are believed to be caused by the low-frequency vibrations. The symptoms begin when the turbines operate and are only relieved when the residents leave the area. The symptoms include, disturbed sleep, headaches, ringing or buzzing in the ears, pressure in the ears, dizziness or vertigo, nausea, blurred vision, racing heartbeats, irritability, memory or concentration problems, and panic attacks with sensations of internal pulsation or quivering.
Another concern the Gilmores had was with a phenomenon known as "shadow flicker," which occurs when the sun is positioned behind the blades of a turbine. The spinning of the blades creates a strobing effect on the ground and in homes near the turbine. The "shadow flicker" can also cause headaches, dizziness, nausea, irritability, and memory or concentration problems.
Craig Poff, senior project developer, and Paul Copleman, communications manager, for Iberdrola Renewables' King of Prussia offices, said Iberdrola takes all concerns into consideration.
"We're very careful as to how we put the wind farms together," Poff said. "The community plays a big part in where these wind farms are located." Poff and Copleman said many of the problems with noise, low-frequency vibration, and shadow flicker can be eliminated by using proper set-backs which will ensure the turbines are located a safe distance from homes and other buildings.
The Gilmores and other residents are also concerned about the wind farms decreasing the property value of residents who live near the farms. The lease agreement is for 25 years with the option to renew. The Gilmores are concerned about what may happen if the company goes under or if better technology comes along that makes the present turbines obsolete.
Poff and Copleman said studies show the wind farms actually increase property value because the turbines generate income for the lease-holder. The agreement states Iberdrola will pay the property owner a percentage of the income generated by the turbine or turbines on their property. Poff and Copleman also said there are procedures in place to decommission towers if they are no longer used.
"It's not a very efficient way of producing power," Sharon Gilmore said. She said each turbine proposed in the Clearfield County farm produce about two megawatts of electricity. She said the Reliant Power Plant in Shawville produces about 800 megawatts. It would take 400 turbines to "replace" the electricity produced at Shawville. However, the turbines only operate at about 30 percent efficiency which means 1,200 turbines would be needed to offset the power generated in Shawville. Industry standards say only eight turbines can be placed per mile, which means 150 miles of land would be needed for the turbines.
"The Continental Divide is a unique resource," Gary Gilmore said. "Do we want to clutter it up with all these turbines?"
According to previously published Tri-County Sunday articles, once a wind farm is up and running, the electricity produced can be brought to the public two ways.
The first way is to connect the wind farm directly to a pre-existing electricity grid. That allows the electricity produced locally to be used in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Maryland, Virginia and West Virginia. By using an existing grid, homeowners do not have to retrofit their houses as they would if they simply hooked their homes directly to the windmill, which is the second way.
"I would be interested in a locally-owned wind turbine, where the community would get some of the proceeds," Sharon Gilmore said.
Pennsylvania now has an alternative energy portfolio standard which calls for an increase in the percentage of the state's electric supply produced using clean methods which means the state is supporting projects such as the Clearfield County Wind Farm
According to Poff and Copleman, work is still on-going on the Clearfield County Wind Farm project and nothing has been finalized yet.

©Courier-Express/Tri-County 2009
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by One lone voice »

Someone needs to tell these people that Iberdrola and Gamesa are both owned by the same company in Spain.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Fightin' Irish »

Great post: http://plummershollow.wordpress.com/200 ... ankruptcy/

Those of you who attended the Gamesa Open House at the Tyrone Senior Center in December 2007 remember the John Denver look-alike named Mike Barton, a forester who is a spokesperson for Gamesa. He was also the forester for Helsel Lumber when that company trashed the property adacent to the Bonta's 650acres in Plummers Hollow east of Tyrone.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

We made the paper again today !! :eek:
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by sammie »

As some of you are aware, Gamesa is wasting no time in getting started on the destruction of Ice Mountain. According to a recent PA Bulletin, they have already applied for a NPDES permit.

And here's the payoff (wonder if Snyder Township is getting anything?):

Altoona Mirror
Sunday, July 19, 2009

Rendell follows through for Tyrone

Governor trying to help borough strike deal with Gamesa Energy

By Greg Bock
gbock@altoonamirror.com

TYRONE - Gov. Ed Rendell is apparently keeping his promise to help Tyrone Borough for striking a deal with wind farm developer Gamesa Energy USA.

A $2.7 million sidewalk and curb replacement project along seven blocks of Washington Avenue was initially turned down by PennDOT during its funding selection process of projects to be funded through the Pennsylvania Community Transportation Initiative.

Rendell spokesman Chuck Ardo said the governor is aware the borough's project was turned down by PennDOT but indicatied that could change.

"If the borough hasn't already reapplied for the funding, it should do so," Ardo said when asked if the governor has gone back on the promise.

Tyrone Borough officials confirmed they received word from the governor's office last week telling them that although the project was initially rejected, the borough should reapply. Borough Manager Sharon Dannaway said the project was "on the fast track," and the borough would have a limited window to resubmit its plans.

"We were denied at first but now we're still in the running," Dannaway said.

Mayor Jim Kilmartin said the project was at the top of a list of possible projects the borough was considering when the governor inquired about helping the borough should it agree to lease acreage on it 3,800-acre watershed to Gamesa.

The borough agreed to the deal, which will bring $3 million to $5 million to the borough during the 30-year agreement in exchange for allowing Gamesa to build between 15 and 20 industrial wind turbines as part of its Sandy Ridge Wind Farm.

The borough's project would be a scaled down extension of the multi-milion dollar streetscape refurbishment of its downtown, extending new sidewalks and curbs from 10th to Third streets but without new street lights and trees.

The Pennsylvania Community Transportation Initiative's Smart Transportation projects doled out $59.2 million in late May, including $300,000 to the City of Altoona for extending bike trails and sidewalks between its downtown and Penn State Altoona.
---------------------------------------------------------
Mirror Staff Writer Greg Bock is at 946-7446.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by NMB[shorty]1975 »

Is there any satilite photos sites that show any of the turbine sites. I have checked Google Earth but imagery seems to be too old.

I am not taking sides on the issue. I no longer live in Tyrone or the surrounding area so my opinion doesn't apply.
Normal is vastly overrated.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Fightin' Irish »

NMB[shorty]1975 wrote:Is there any satilite photos sites that show any of the turbine sites. I have checked Google Earth but imagery seems to be too old.

I am not taking sides on the issue. I no longer live in Tyrone or the surrounding area so my opinion doesn't apply.
Image

Turbine locations are green circles, numbered. Roads are blue. Solid black line is project boundary.

Watershed Management Program Manager, 208 West Third Street, Williamsport, PA 17701.

Centre County Conservation District: 414 Holmes Avenue, Suite 4, Bellefonte, PA 16823, (814) 355-6817.

NPDES permit # PAI041409007

Sandy Ridge Wind, LLC
1801 Market Street
Suite 2200
Philadelphia, PA 19107

Affected waterways:
Three Springs and Sand Spring Runs HQ
Sink and Decker Runs TSF
Vanscoyoc Run CWF
Big Fill Run EV
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by NMB[shorty]1975 »

Fightin' Irish wrote:
NMB[shorty]1975 wrote:Is there any satilite photos sites that show any of the turbine sites. I have checked Google Earth but imagery seems to be too old.

I am not taking sides on the issue. I no longer live in Tyrone or the surrounding area so my opinion doesn't apply.
Image

Turbine locations are green circles, numbered. Roads are blue. Solid black line is project boundary.

Watershed Management Program Manager, 208 West Third Street, Williamsport, PA 17701.

Centre County Conservation District: 414 Holmes Avenue, Suite 4, Bellefonte, PA 16823, (814) 355-6817.

NPDES permit # PAI041409007

Sandy Ridge Wind, LLC
1801 Market Street
Suite 2200
Philadelphia, PA 19107

Affected waterways:
Three Springs and Sand Spring Runs HQ
Sink and Decker Runs TSF
Vanscoyoc Run CWF
Big Fill Run EV

Thank you for your help
Normal is vastly overrated.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

If there are any deals to be made, it should be for flood control NOT SIDEWALKS!! We are not selling a plot of land here, we are selling a mountain.... we are about to ruin the forest canopy and, along with everything else, we are taking a huge risk with our pristine watershed !!! Ice Mountain is not the place for turbines.
If they want this community to appreciate what wind turbines will do for them for the next "30 years" :ire: then that mountain should be in exchange for flood control and the upgrading of our sewage system in this community and nothing else !! Otherwise, the money made from these things will most likely be used for just that purpose (we may be required to do so, for they may tell us what to use that money for) and this community will not reap any other benefits !!! We can get our own sidewalks and fix up our own town with the thousands of dollars we are to receive MONTHLY, from each one of these things, for the next "30 years." We won't see any monies around here until "the farm is totally operational" and that will be a while. A deal made now, in exchange for our mountain.... please, whoever you are, don't just give it away.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Ice Man »

From our friends across the pond, who are several years ahead of us in industrial windplant development:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... heads.html

Wind farms will be a monument to an age when our leaders collectively went off their heads

Last updated at 7:54 AM on 15th July 2009

Let us be clear: Britain is facing an unprecedented crisis. Before long, we will lose 40 per cent of our generating capacity.

And unless we come up quickly with an alternative, the lights WILL go out. Not before time, the Confederation of British Industry yesterday waded in, warning the Government it must abandon its crazy fixation with wind turbines as a way of plugging this forthcoming shortfall and instead urgently focus on far more efficient ways to meet the threat of a permanent, nationwide black-out.

There are a few contenders for the title of the maddest thing that has happened in our lifetime.

But a front-runner must be the way in which politicians of all parties have been seduced by the La-La Land promises of the wind power lobby.

If you still haven't made your mind up about wind power, just consider some of the inescapable facts - facts which the Government and the wind industry do their best to hide from us all.

So far we have spent billions of pounds on building just over 2,000 wind turbines - and yet they contribute barely one per cent of all the electricity that we need.

The combined output of all those 2,000 turbines put together, averaging 700 megawatts, is less than that of a single, medium-sized conventional power station.

What's more, far from being 'free', this pitiful dribble of electricity is twice as expensive as the power we get from the nuclear, gas or coal-fired power stations which currently supply well over 90 per cent of our needs - and we all pay the difference, without knowing it, through our electricity bills.

But despite its best efforts to conceal the fact that wind turbines expensively and unreliably generate only a derisory amount of electricity, the Government keeps on telling us of its megalomaniac plans to build thousands more of them - at a cost of up to £100billion.

The prime reason for this is that we are legally obliged by the European Union to generate 32 per cent of our electricity from 'renewable' sources by 2020.

And with just 11 years to go until that deadline, we hope to meet the target by building highly-subsidised wind turbines.

But this is a farce. In fact, as the Government is privately well aware, there is not the faintest hope that we can do anything of the kind - even if we wanted to.

Gordon Brown talks airily of building 4,000 offshore turbines by our target date - plus another 3,000 onshore. But this would mean sticking two of these 2,000-ton monsters, each the height of Blackpool Tower, into the seabed every day for the next 11 years.

Nowhere in the world has it proved possible to install more than one of them a week. The infrastructure simply isn't there to build more than a fraction of that figure.

Furthermore, such are the weather conditions around Britain's coasts that it is only possible to work on these projects for a few months every summer.

Then there are the 3,000 promised onshore turbines - many of which are to be erected in the most beautiful stretches of Britain's countryside.

These are meeting with so much local hostility that the Government has continually had to bend the planning rules in order to force them through over the wishes of local communities and the democratic opposition of local councils.

But wind power is not just the pipedream of deluded politicians. As the CBI was trying to warn yesterday, the real disaster of this great wind fantasy is that it has diverted attention from the genuine energy crisis now hurtling towards us at breakneck speed.

For while the Government is trying to force a scattering of useless wind turbines through the planning offices, the truth is that the rest of us will lose 40 per cent of our power stations within as little as seven years.

If this happens, and we don't have an alternative, our kettles won't boil, our computers won't work and our country will face economic meltdown.

There is little hope now of an 11th hour reprieve. Eight of our nine nuclear power stations - which presently supply 20 per cent of our electricity needs - are so old they will have to close.

Nine more large coal and oil-fired power plants will also be forced to shut down under an EU anti-pollution directive.

But more alarming still is the astonishing naivete of almost all our politicians when it comes to working out how we are going to fill the 40 per cent shortfall left in their wake. Very belatedly, the Government has said that it wants to see a new generation of nuclear reactors.

Yet there is little hope that any of them can be up and running earlier than 2020. What's more, they will have to be built by foreign-owned companies because, as recently as October 2006, the Government sold off our last world-class nuclear construction company, Westinghouse, to the Japanese at a knockdown price.

At the same time, our Energy And Climate Change Secretary, Ed Miliband, now says he will not allow any new coal-fired power stations to be built unless they have 'carbon capture' - piping off CO2 to bury it in holes in the ground.

This technology not only doubles the price of electricity but hasn't even yet been properly developed. And so the only hope of keeping the lights on will be to build dozens more gas-fired power stations - at a time when North Sea gas is fast running out.

And then we will be forced to rely on imports from politically unreliable countries such as Russia, at a time when gas prices are likely to be soaring.

In any event, over the past 20 years, our politicians have made an even more unholy shambles of Britain's energy policy than they have of our economy - and the cost, when the chickens come to roost in a few years' time, will be almost unimaginable.

The causes of Britain's impending energy crisis are manifold. Michael Heseltine's 1992 'dash for gas', when he closed down most of our remaining coal mines because North Sea gas was still cheap and abundant, and because its CO2 emissions were only half those of coal, was one of them.

But nothing has done more to take the politicians' eye off the ball, egged on by environmentalist groups such as Friends Of The Earth and Greenpeace, than their quite incomprehensible obsession with windmills.

For these white elephants can never produce more than a fraction of the electricity we need, and by no means always when we need it - as we saw last winter when, for weeks on end, they were scarcely turning at all.

Do politicians never look outside the windows of their centrally-heated offices to see how often the wind is not blowing?

The Government has now shovelled so much money in hidden subsidies into the pockets of the turbine companies that the 'wind bonanza', promoted on a host of fraudulent claims, has become one of the greatest scams of our age.

But if and when our lights do go out, it will be important to remember just why we got carried away by such a massive blunder.

Left with a land blighted with useless towers of metal, we shall look on those windmills as a monument to the age when the politicians of Britain and Europe collectively went completely off their heads.
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