Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

[My2Cents]

No Bill... It's not that there is anything sneaky about this. Word has been put out... I can remember it being put out a long time ago. I'm just saying, most people are not paying much attention. Most people (right now) don't even care. With all that has been put out there to the public most folks go with the flow and never question anything. Tyrone has always been that way... Tyrone is still full of very trusting people.... they know council will take care of things and they leave it up to council to do just that as they all go on their merry way. Big brother has never tried to put his foot in here like he is this time. Yes, global warming is a big thing and we have to do "something" but we are to have this "fixed" by 2020. Something will be found by then and it's not going to be these wind "farms" on Sandy Ridge that's going to help the problem. "We," meaning the world has to do something... this potential "farm" on our ridge top is not the answer. It will take years to see it, however, the water will most definately be affected and a lot of the wildlife will be endangered, if not gone
forever. I know (broken record) but, so true.
Bill, from the bottom of my heart, I do hope that you will not have to look out into your back yard and see a wind turbine. Way back, I was just using that as an example... ie., think how you would feel if one were there. Now, that it could be a possible reality... oh my, that would be terrible !! If it happens, I will feel terrible for saying that.

[My2Cents]

Just to comment on those with the location, in my back yard-Be aware of the side effects of increased sounds (ie noise), vibrations and the many well documented health issues that occur if these windmills are placed too close to residences /inhabited buildings. Europe has had turbines for >30years and if one looks, one can educate themselves, before they are in placed. My community in Blue Knob has them and also the complications as well. Gamesa and Babcock and Brown (the company that will most likely buy Gamesa out after construction) both are passing the buck at whos' problems they are. And yet nothing is being done. My small township of Juniata is going to foot a rather large bill for a certified sound study to prove there is a problem with noise.There is a national movement to make the ordinance to be one mile from any inhabited building, thereby decreasing these issues. All these topics are addressed on S.O.A.R website. Seeing the turbines is the least of your concerns if they are approved.

Thanks inmybackyard... This is a typical example of falling for the sales pitch, signing a lease and letting them into the in the area first place. Once that lease is signed and agreed to... BAM, they are in there to do as they want and NO ONE or NOTHING can stop them now.
Here, in Tyrone, I can almost see them trying to make a compromise.. ie,. you let us in and we'll do this and we'll do that... we'll work with you... etc.

[My2Cents]

One more thing "inmybackyard." What if, after all this money and time is spent and it is proven that the sound does happen to be a health issue and that these turbines are placed too close to residents.... will, "who ever is in charge now", come in, widen the roads and haul the turbins out again ?? I don't think so...... I have a feeling they blew it by having them installed in the first place and there is nothing they can do about it now.... no matter how much money they spend in trying to prove things.

[inmybackyard]

Perhaps you are right, however I have faith in my ability as a community member...To inform, educate and help those who cannot, or will not. Then there is always the legal avenue.
What is worse than having them bulit and then they stand still because an injunction has stopped them? There would be No benefit to anyone. It is much better to stand up now, then being in our situation.

[My2Cents]

Perhaps you are right, however I have faith in my ability as a community member...To inform, educate and help those who cannot, or will not. Then there is always the legal avenue.
What is worse than having them bulit and then they stand still because an injunction has stopped them? There would be No benefit to anyone. It is much better to stand up now, then being in our situation.

I totally agree and I'm sorry you will have to go thru all you will have to go thru to get the answers and problems solved. I truly hope all turns out for the best. Hang in there. :thumb:

[Something to say]

Just a suggestion. I do not live in the borough of Tyrone so I cannot do this. Those of you that are against the turbines, why don't you write up a petition .. copy it and a few of you could go door to door and have the residents sign it. Then... submit it at the meeting. I would imagine few people will attend the meeting, but their opinion could still be heard. If it's a numbers game...get the numbers.

[Something to say]

LOL... My2cents... I know how you feel...I'm certain some are thinking I should get a life as well...lol But there is something else that I've been thinking about and me being me...gonna say it.

Bill... I know the revenue that could be generated by the the turbines looks tempting. ( the lease ) But if it's the revenue alone ..and at this point it surely must be...taking into consideration that we've seen proof over and over again in this thread that turbines won't make much ( green ) difference, why doesn't this council start looking for other ways to generate revenue in Tyrone. For instance: I-99 is nearing completion. From state college to altoona there is nothing ...meaning....no rest stops, no restaurants...no gas...etc..etc....with the exception of Bald Eagle Intercept. Have you considered demolishing some of the empty buildings and putting bids out there to places such as McDonalds, Taco Bell...etc..etc. Not only would that pull people off the interstate...but it would benefit Tyrone in other ways. I know that people run to Altoona for fish and chips....etc. People eat out. And it would create jobs in the town. ???

[sissy31696]

Just some information that I found, thought some of you guys in this thread might enjoy reading this for future use:::



Officials on wind turbines: Shhhhh!
Juniata supervisors will write letters to companies asking to reduce the noise

By Kay Stephens, kstephens@altoonamirror.com POSTED: November 13, 2007 Save | Print | Email | Read comments | Post a comment
Email: "Officials on wind turbines: Shhhhh!"
*To: <--TO Email REQUIRED!
*From: <--FROM Email REQUIRED!


DUNCANSVILLE — Juniata Township supervisors will ask the companies that own and maintain wind turbines within their municipality to reduce turbine noise generating complaints from residents.

Supervisors agreed Monday to have solicitor Michael Routch send letters to Babcock & Brown, the company that owns the Allegheny Ridge Wind Farm, and Gamesa Energy USA, which maintains it.

They want to know why the turbines are generating noise louder than 45 decibels and what will be done to lessen that.

Under the township’s ordinance, wind turbines are not permitted to make noise in excess of 45 decibels, a level that has been compared to the hum of a refrigerator.

“Sometimes, it sounds like a jet is going over my place but not landing,” said Myrle Baum, who has four turbines behind his property. “I can’t keep the windows open.”

Todd and Jill Stull provided supervisors Monday night with noise meter readings, up to 79 decibels, registered since Oct. 22 on their property. Similar readings registered on a nearby property.

“We’re not making these up,” Todd Stull told supervisors.

But the noise doesn’t occur every day, Baum said.

“It doesn’t matter,” Todd Stull said. “It shouldn’t be any day.”

Routch said he would take the meter readings and send them to the companies with his letter.

He also advised supervisors to hire sound engineer Paul Heishman of Mechanicsburg to conduct noise level tests.

A month ago, supervisors voted to purchase noise meters but backed away in favor of hiring someone with certification in measuring noise levels. Jill Stull collected her readings with a meter borrowed from Penn State University.

Routch said Heishman has excellent credentials, and if he finds the noise to be in excess of 45 decibels, the township can demand changes or enforce its ordinance by imposing fines.

Supervisors agreed to hire Heishman at $3,120 for 20 hours of work but said they first wanted to send a letter to the companies.

“I think we need to at least give them a chance to respond,” Supervisor Dave Rimbeck said.

Jill Stull said she’s been in contact with both companies for months and got no action.

“I’m tired of waiting, guys,” she said.

Routch said his letter will ask the companies to address the issue within a time frame that doesn’t leave the township “waiting around.”

Mirror Staff Writer Kay Stephens is at 946-7456.

[My2Cents]

LOL... My2cents... I know how you feel...I'm certain some are thinking I should get a life as well...lol But there is something else that I've been thinking about and me being me...gonna say it.

Bill... I know the revenue that could be generated by the the turbines looks tempting. ( the lease ) But if it's the revenue alone ..and at this point it surely must be...taking into consideration that we've seen proof over and over again in this thread that turbines won't make much ( green ) difference, why doesn't this council start looking for other ways to generate revenue in Tyrone. For instance: I-99 is nearing completion. From state college to altoona there is nothing ...meaning....no rest stops, no restaurants...no gas...etc..etc....with the exception of Bald Eagle Intercept. Have you considered demolishing some of the empty buildings and putting bids out there to places such as McDonalds, Taco Bell...etc..etc. Not only would that pull people off the interstate...but it would benefit Tyrone in other ways. I know that people run to Altoona for fish and chips....etc. People eat out. And it would create jobs in the town. ???

I agree, I agree, I agree.... all of the above....including, building a hotel. There are many other ways to get the money to do things. Bring 'em in and make some money the good 'ole fashon way !!! I always invisioned one of those old fashion diners, with it's neon sign, up at the top of Pennsylvania Avenue, near the railroad station.... it could be seen from I99. It would go over great in this area... with all the seniors, or about to be seniors, and coming of age baby boomers...there is about to be a lot in our little town. I believe an old fashon diner with all the chrome and bright red plastic chair seats and the jukebox playing the songs from the good old days... just like in the movies, offering good home cooked meals... this would also bring a lot of folks into our little town. People would come from all around just for fun and nostalgia. The community players could offer a good show and people could stay at our hotel after all is said and done. Football games at Penn State.... hey, a hotel in Tyrone would be a place for out of towners to stay. Besides, I99 is due to open in Dec 2007... a streight shot ot State College. What ever it is that has to be paid for.... they could be paid for thru something like this. There are soooo many things we could be doing that would really pay off. I know it's easier said that done but thru determination and dedication, it can be done....

[sandstone]

Question: If the idea of Wind Turbines going up and being operational meant that Coal Fired Power Plants would curtail their output during those times and if the proceeds of the land lease for the Turbines would mean a savings to Borough residents in possible future rate increases, would this be thought to be a positive for the Environment and The Borough?

Please just quote this and give your brief idea on it. This is just something that was brought to me and I want to feel it out. Sort of a poll inside the topic. Thank you in advance for your kind consideration in answering this question.

Sincerely,
Bill

Ice Mountain is a "unique" area "of exceptional conservation value" according to the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory conducted about 5 years ago by professional ecologists from the Western Pennsylvania Conservancy. Because of Ice Mountain's status as a County Natural Heritage Area, any development, including industrial windfarms, would be ecologically destructive to this site.

Regarding whether any industrial windplant on municipal or state public land would be "a positive for the environment" I again submit the following statement from the Pennsylvania Biological Survey:

Wind Power Development on Public Lands – It Isn’t Worth It
By the Pennsylvania Biological Survey
The Pennsylvania Biological Survey is a nonprofit organization whose purpose is to increase the knowledge of and foster the perpetuation of the natural biological diversity of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Our membership includes scientists, representatives of state and federal agencies concerned with natural resource management, and representatives of non-profit conservation organizations.
PABS technical committees serve as official advisory committees to several natural resource agencies in the state, including the Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, Game Commission, and Fish and Boat Commission.
After reviewing evidence on the environmental costs and benefits of wind energy, PABS is opposed to wind energy development on Pennsylvania natural resource agency lands.
We are aware of the serious environmental costs of fossil fuel energy sources, including the threats of global climate change to Pennsylvania’s natural biological diversity. We therefore support the responsible development of alternative energy sources, including properly sited wind energy development.
However, because wind energy development has associated environmental costs, wind energy development should only be instituted on state lands if the environmental benefits can be demonstrated to exceed the environmental costs.
Based on the available evidence, it is our conclusion that wind energy development is not suitable on state-owned lands where natural resource conservation is a major goal (i.e., primarily lands owned and managed by the Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources and the Pennsylvania Game Commission).
The reason for our opposition is outlined below but can be summarized as follows:
The environmental benefits of wind energy development, in the mid-Atlantic area in general and on Pennsylvania state lands in particular, are small relative to the negative consequences, which include habitat fragmentation and mortality to birds and bats.
The primary environmental benefit of wind energy production is that it offsets the use of fossil fuels, thereby reducing emissions of carbon dioxide, a potent greenhouse gas.
The Department of Energy projects that by 2020, wind power will meet 1.2 to 4.5 percent of the country’s electricity generation, and will thus offset emissions of carbon dioxide from electricity generation by 1.2 to 4.5 percent. Since electricity generation accounts for 39 percent of carbon dioxide emissions in the United States, wind power will offset between 0.5 and 1.8 percent of total carbon dioxide emissions (National Research Council 2007).
The National Research Council (2007) concludes “Wind energy will contribute proportionately less to electricity generation in the mid-Atlantic region than in the United States as a whole, because a smaller portion of the region has high-quality wind resources than the portion of high-quality wind resources in the United States as a whole.”
Thus, it is apparent that wind energy development in the mid-Atlantic will offset a very minor portion of future carbon dioxide emissions.
Because Commonwealth Natural Resource Agency Lands make up only a fraction of land in Pennsylvania, the contribution of wind energy development on these lands to future energy needs, as well as any offset of carbon dioxide emissions, will be negligible.
Energy conservation, on the other hand, could considerably reduce the demand for energy and thus reduce carbon dioxide emissions. For example, residential home energy consumption in 2020 could be feasibly educed by over 1/3 using existing technologies (Bressand et al. 2007).
The environmental impacts of wind energy are considerable. Mortality to birds and bats has been of particular concern. Bat mortality from wind turbines has been particularly high, especially along forested ridge tops in the eastern United States.
Because bats generally have low reproductive rates, cumulative negative impacts of wind energy development on bat populations are likely (Kunz et al. 2007). Based on projections of installed wind capacity, it is estimated that by 2020 annual mortality in the mid-Atlantic highlands could be as high as 45,000 birds (National Research Council 2007) and 111,000 bats (Kunz et al. 2007).
With wind energy development expanding on private lands in Pennsylvania, the forested ridge tops of state-owned lands will become even more critical for birds, bats, and other species that utilize these habitats.
Another important, and often overlooked, impact of wind development is habitat fragmentation and its associated effects. These effects include reduced habitat area, habitat isolation and loss of species from an area, disruption of dispersal, increased edge effects and loss of core habitat, and facilitation of invasive species (Groom et al. 2006).
Due to their linearity, roads and transmission lines, both of which accompany wind energy development, have particularly pronounced fragmentation effects (Groom et al. 2006, Willyard et al. 2004).
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (2003) recommends that wind energy development “avoid fragmenting large, contiguous tracts of wildlife habitat” and advises that wind turbines be placed “on lands already altered or cultivated, and away from areas of intact and healthy native habitats.”
Because natural resource agency lands are among the last remaining large blocks of unfragmented land in Pennsylvania, these lands are particularly in need of protection. A publication produced by the Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources (Moyer 2003) emphasizes the importance of preserving these last remaining large blocks of unfragmented habitat in the state.
In conclusion, the environmental benefits wind energy development on natural resource agency lands in Pennsylvania are negligible compared with the environmental consequences. These lands should remain closed to wind energy development.
For more information on the position of the Pennsylvania Biological Survey, contact Dr. Tim Maret, Department of Biology, Shippensburg University, by calling 717-477-1170 or sending email to: tjmare@ship.edu .

[SoccerMom]

This may sound silly, but was it here that I read something about the energy generated by these things will be sent to Canada? That we will not benefit from these at all (other than the lease $$$)?

Okay, everyone laugh now, but someone please straighten me out on this.

[sandstone]

This may sound silly, but was it here that I read something about the energy generated by these things will be sent to Canada? That we will not benefit from these at all (other than the lease $$$)?

Okay, everyone laugh now, but someone please straighten me out on this.

The electricity generated by any industrial source in Blair County would be part of the PJM grid, and would be used in Pennsylvania, Maryland, New Jersey, or Delaware. Most of the electricity is used in Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington, D.C.. There is no way to trace the journey of the individual electrons.

[sandstone]

No Bill... It's not that there is anything sneaky about this. Word has been put out... I can remember it being put out a long time ago. I'm just saying, most people are not paying much attention. Most people (right now) don't even care. With all that has been put out there to the public most folks go with the flow and never question anything. Tyrone has always been that way... Tyrone is still full of very trusting people.... they know council will take care of things and they leave it up to council to do just that as they all go on their merry way. Big brother has never tried to put his foot in here like he is this time. Yes, global warming is a big thing and we have to do "something" but we are to have this "fixed" by 2020. Something will be found by then and it's not going to be these wind "farms" on Sandy Ridge that's going to help the problem. "We," meaning the world has to do something... this potential "farm" on our ridge top is not the answer. It will take years to see it, however, the water will most definately be affected and a lot of the wildlife will be endangered, if not gone
forever. I know (broken record) but, so true.
Bill, from the bottom of my heart, I do hope that you will not have to look out into your back yard and see a wind turbine. Way back, I was just using that as an example... ie., think how you would feel if one were there. Now, that it could be a possible reality... oh my, that would be terrible !! If it happens, I will feel terrible for saying that.

A fact to keep in mind: 4,000 industrial-scale wind turbines will be needed to provide just 10% of Pennsylvania's electricity needs.
Another fact: Pennsylvania has 5 nuclear power plants. 3,000 industrial-scale wind turbines would be needed to produce as much electricity as one nuclear power plant.
Industrial windplants produce electricity only intermittently, i.e. when the wind is blowing. No industrial windplant east of the Mississippi River has ever exceeded an annualized capacity of greater than 30% (this means that they only produce 30% of their rated capacity). Even worse, in summer, when electricity demand is the highest, and winds are poor, industrial windplants in the east rarely exceed a 10% capacity factor. In contrast, nuclear power plants reliably produce 90% of their rated capacity and do not produce greenhouse gases. Nuclear power is the only technology we have that can reliably supply our electricity demand while not producing greenhouse gases.

If 30 2 MegaWatt (MW) industrial wind turbines are placed on Ice Mountain, then the total rated capacity of this windplant will be 30 x 2MW = 60 MW. Because windplants east of the Mississippi River don't exceed a 30% capacity factor, the annuallized capacity of the Ice Mt plant would be 20 MW. A typical nuclear power plant in PA has a capacity of 2000 MW. Thus, the Ice Mt plant would produce about 1% of the electricity that could be generated by a typical PA nuclear power plant.

On Ice Mountain, the huge ecological costs of an industrial windplant will far exceed its puny benefits.

[sandstone]

Just some information that I found, thought some of you guys in this thread might enjoy reading this for future use:

Officials on wind turbines: Shhhhh!
Juniata supervisors will write letters to companies asking to reduce the noise

By Kay Stephens, kstephens@altoonamirror.com POSTED: November 13, 2007
"Officials on wind turbines: Shhhhh!"

DUNCANSVILLE — Juniata Township supervisors will ask the companies that own and maintain wind turbines within their municipality to reduce turbine noise generating complaints from residents.

Supervisors agreed Monday to have solicitor Michael Routch send letters to Babcock & Brown, the company that owns the Allegheny Ridge Wind Farm, and Gamesa Energy USA, which maintains it.

They want to know why the turbines are generating noise louder than 45 decibels and what will be done to lessen that.

Under the township’s ordinance, wind turbines are not permitted to make noise in excess of 45 decibels, a level that has been compared to the hum of a refrigerator.

“Sometimes, it sounds like a jet is going over my place but not landing,” said Myrle Baum, who has four turbines behind his property. “I can’t keep the windows open.”

Todd and Jill Stull provided supervisors Monday night with noise meter readings, up to 79 decibels, registered since Oct. 22 on their property. Similar readings registered on a nearby property.

“We’re not making these up,” Todd Stull told supervisors.

But the noise doesn’t occur every day, Baum said.

“It doesn’t matter,” Todd Stull said. “It shouldn’t be any day.”

Routch said he would take the meter readings and send them to the companies with his letter.

He also advised supervisors to hire sound engineer Paul Heishman of Mechanicsburg to conduct noise level tests.

A month ago, supervisors voted to purchase noise meters but backed away in favor of hiring someone with certification in measuring noise levels. Jill Stull collected her readings with a meter borrowed from Penn State University.

Routch said Heishman has excellent credentials, and if he finds the noise to be in excess of 45 decibels, the township can demand changes or enforce its ordinance by imposing fines.

Supervisors agreed to hire Heishman at $3,120 for 20 hours of work but said they first wanted to send a letter to the companies.

“I think we need to at least give them a chance to respond,” Supervisor Dave Rimbeck said.

Jill Stull said she’s been in contact with both companies for months and got no action.

“I’m tired of waiting, guys,” she said.

Routch said his letter will ask the companies to address the issue within a time frame that doesn’t leave the township “waiting around.”

Mirror Staff Writer Kay Stephens is at 946-7456.

Several important studies pertaining to noise and utility-scale wind turbines are listed below. Others can by found on http://www.windaction.org by searching on the keyword 'noise'.

Health effects of wind turbine noise - Dr. Nina Pierpont, March 2006

The sound of high winds: the effect of atmospheric stability on wind turbine sound and microphone noise - G. P. van den Berg, May 2006

Wind Turbine Syndrome: Noise, shadow flicker, and health - Dr. Nina Pierpont, June 2006 (see pages 7-14 out of 20)

Location, Location, Location - The UK Noise Association, July 2006

Wind Turbines, Noise and Health - Dr. Amanda Harry, Feb 2007

Infrasound and low frequency noise dose responses: Contributions - Mariana Alves-Pereiraa and Nuno A. A. Castelo Branco, Aug 2007

Wind Farm Noise and Regulations in the Eastern United States - Hilkat Soysal and Oguz Soysal, Sept 2007

[sandstone]

Check http://vawind.org/Assets/Docs/Forest%20 ... tation.pdf
to see what Gamesa and some borough council members have in store for Ice Mountain.