Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

[sandstone]

During Tuesday's forum, Gamesa Mid Atlantic Director of Development Ellen Lutz stated that the noise issues affecting landowners near the Allegheny Ridge Wind Farm would be investigated by Gamesa engineers the next day (Wednesday) and that the noise issues would be corrected within 48 hours. According to inmybackyard, who is one of the affected landowners, nothing has yet been investigated or corrected:

"Just an update on our situation in Blue Knob, which is the phase one of the windfarm, and includes Juniata, Greenfield and Portage townships. To be clear, NO, nothing has been done. Babcock and Brown blames Gamesa for faulty blades and now "taping" issues on the leading edge of the blades, and rotor noise. Gamesa says they are aware of this problem and will be fixing it. However, the noise is dependent ofn the topography, the speed of the rotation of the blades and the pitch of the blades, which are all contolled by a person at the computer. All they need to do, is to slow them down when they are making increased noise. They say it is one issue after another, and the noise continues. We, at Juniata township are commisioning our own sound study, to prove they are breaking the ordinance of 45dB, and they have 60days to fix it, or we will place an injuction on them and shut them down until all issues are fixed.
We haven't seen and cranes necessary to service these beasts, and wonder what they are actually "fixing". "

So, at least 3 pieces of misinformation (lies) from Gamesa that evening:

1. Gamesa claimed that industrial windfarm do not cause significant forest fragmentation. To back this statement up, Gamesa's Mid Atlantic Director of Development stated that Tamara Gagnolet of The Nature Conservancy would confirm Gamesa's assertion. Kayaker1 contacted Tamara and stated that Tamara was "astounded" that Gamesa would make such a claim. Tamara denied that she ever said that industrial windfarms don't cause significant forest fragmentation.

2. Gamesa claimed that the noise problem affecting landowners adjacent to the Allegheny Ridge Wind Farm would be investigated and corrected by Gamesa engineers within 48 hours. According to inmybackyard, nothing of the sort has happened.

3. Gamesa claimed that they voluntarily abandoned Brush Mountain in Logan Township as a potential windplant site after receiving a letter from the US Fish and Wildlife Service in June 2006 advising Gamesa that Brush Mountain was not suited to industrial windplant development because of ecological concerns. In reality, Gamesa continued to demand that the Logan Township Board of Supervisors open Brush Mountain to industrial windplant development at their September and October 2006 Board of Supervisors meetings. One month later, after the Logan Township Board of Supervisors definitively declared Brush Mountain off-limits to industrial windfarm development, Gamesa's Executive Director Gabriel Alonso (in Philadelphia) continued to assert that Gamesa would pursue a windplant on Brush Mountain in the future. This is indicative of Gamesa's disrespect for the US Fish and Wildlife Service, Logan Township's Board of Supervisors, and the hundreds of Logan Township residents who expressed opposition to an industrial windplant on Brush Mountain.

[Something to say]

I don't need highly educated experts spewing goo gobs of gobbly gook to form my opinion. After all of the research that I have read on both sides I came across these youtube entries ....these folks aren't experts but they are "experiments." They know first hand the cons of wind farms. They are just like the regular folks of Tyrone and the surrounding areas. Them's good people!!!! Meyersdale,Pa.

YOU TUBE-

LIFE UNDER A WIND FARM ( watch parts 1-3)


They're screwed but you don't have to be............

I couldn't agree more Anne.

[SANTEEO]

....Yes yes that sounds like a good idea. Let me ask, what do you do for your community? I ask that respectfully, because honestly I don't know, heck I don't even know who you are. They are the ones who I serve, not someone from Bellefonte.

You alway's ask that of everyone that say's something you don't like Mr.Mayor.
Does that judge a person for you?
The one who donate's $100.00 is not as good as the people down the street who donated a can of soup to the Tyrone Food Bank because it's all they had.
You judge people on them kind of values?
Is that your thinking Mr.Mayor?
If it is then that kind of serving to the people will not get you votes the next time.
You stated not from Bellefonte?????
I'm posting this where I work,Mr.Mayor of Tyrone.When it comes time for you to make a call from your community to respond to a fire,or a community parade or any kind of service,you,Mr.Mayor,remember that statement you made about our people.
This is just why I say,you do not belong in office.Your neighboring community's are there to work together when other's need support in services.........What kind of Mayor of office makes a sad comment like that.
We welcome people from Tyrone and all area's to our event's,such as carnival's,parade's....we give trophey's to Tyrone,ball game's,football.........Don't you hear yourself when you speak as a man in office that you hold?
As Mayor,(not Bill Latchford)as a public servent,you are a speaker of the people,for the people,your statement you made was out of line to our town of Bellefonte.Mr.Mayor,you need to step down and let Bill Latchford run for a cub scout leader.
What I thought of the Mayor of Tyrone the first time around still remain's true. :huh:

[DonkeyHoagie]

I don't think Bill's the mayor, is he? Was there a coup d'etat?
Viva le Revolution!

[SoccerMom]

FYI, Bill Latchford is a town council member. Jim Killmartin is the mayor, and seems to be against the wind turbines.

The documentary on wind turbines on YouTube, the one that interviewed the residents, was very well done I thought. The noise these things make is just unbelievable, I can't imagine living next to that. Great posts on here lately, thanks for the lively discussion!

[sandstone]

An article about the Juniata Valley Audubon Christmas Bird Count is in today's (Saturday, 12/8) Altoona Mirror Life Section.

[sandstone]

Thanks, guys and gals! I didn't even know about these: http://www.wind-watch.org/videos.php

[My2Cents]

Last evening, instead of watching the 'ole faithful TV, I went thru all those videos/utubers that annie posted on here. If everyone, especially those who are about to make the "big decision" looks thru all those video's... there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that we can not allow them to step one foot into this area. One of those videos caught my attention... it was a gentleman speaking about liability... who's responsible for these turbines once they have been put in, etc.... those who own the land that was leased to GAMESA (or whoever the company is)...is responsible for all that happens afterwards. Say one of those blades break off during a wind/ice storm and go flying thru someones house.... too bad, you bought the farm, you're responsible for whatever happens.... same thing if a turbine collapses... it's your baby now. Same goes for run off, water contamination, etc... whatever happens, and it will happen eventually... "they" are not responsible for anything. If something goes bad and someone has to be called... it will be just like trying to get a hold of ( I won't mention it here ). If we are lucky enough to get through to someone... depending on the importance, they will give one the 'ole, we'll check on it business.
Once that lease is signed.... we bought the farm.... it will be good bye Ice Mountain, nature, and the life therein, as we know it today.... it will be gone forever.

[SANTEEO]

I don't think Bill's the mayor, is he? Was there a coup d'etat?
Viva le Revolution!

NO,not yet anyway!!!!!
That's just what he think's he is at times.
Before he run's for that I think people skill's are in order to be taught....!!!!!!

[sammie]

Check out the article below. These people have been suffering for months.

According to Gamesa at Wednesday's meeting, the turbines at the Allegheny Ridge Wind Farm are still in test mode. That is why, they said, they only had an 8% capacity factor. Wonder what the noise will be like when they're not in test mode over there.

Obviously, Gamesa's so-called pre contruction noise tests are worthless and so is their response to citizen's complaints.

http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/conte ... ml?nav=742

Officials on wind turbines: Shhhhh!; Juniata supervisors write to companies asking to reduce noise
November 13, 2007 by Kay Stephens in Altoona Mirror

Juniata Township supervisors will ask the companies that own and maintain wind turbines within their municipality to reduce turbine noise generating complaints from residents.

Supervisors agreed Monday to have solicitor Michael Routch send letters to Babcock & Brown, the company that owns the Allegheny Ridge Wind Farm, and Gamesa Energy USA, which maintains it.

They want to know why the turbines are generating noise louder than 45 decibels and what will be done to lessen that.

Under the township's ordinance, wind turbines are not permitted to make noise in excess of 45 decibels, a level that has been compared to the hum of a refrigerator.

"Sometimes, it sounds like a jet is going over my place but not landing," said Myrle Baum, who has four turbines behind his property. "I can't keep the windows open."

Todd and Jill Stull provided supervisors Monday night with noise meter readings, up to 79 decibels, registered since Oct. 22 on their property. Similar readings registered on a nearby property.

"We're not making these up," Todd Stull told supervisors.

But the noise doesn't occur every day, Baum said.

"It doesn't matter," Todd Stull said. "It shouldn't be any day."

Routch said he would take the meter readings and send them to the companies with his letter.
He also advised supervisors to hire sound engineer Paul Heishman of Mechanicsburg to conduct noise level tests.

A month ago, supervisors voted to purchase noise meters but backed away in favor of hiring someone with certification in measuring noise levels. Jill Stull collected her readings with a meter borrowed from Penn State University.

Routch said Heishman has excellent credentials, and if he finds the noise to be in excess of 45 decibels, the township can demand changes or enforce its ordinance by imposing fines.

Supervisors agreed to hire Heishman at $3,120 for 20 hours of work but said they first wanted to send a letter to the companies.

"I think we need to at least give them a chance to respond," Supervisor Dave Rimbeck said.

Jill Stull said she's been in contact with both companies for months and got no action.

"I'm tired of waiting, guys," she said.

Routch said his letter will ask the companies to address the issue within a time frame that doesn't leave the township "waiting around."

Mirror Staff Writer Kay Stephens is at 946-7456.

[sandstone]

According to Gamesa at Wednesday's meeting, the turbines at the Allegheny Ridge Wind Farm are still in test mode. That is why, they said, they only had an 8% capacity factor. Wonder what the noise will be like when they're not in test mode over there.

Obviously, Gamesa's so-called pre contruction noise tests are worthless and so is their response to citizen's complaints.

Good point, sammie.

Below is an article from the Somerset Daily American describing a situation almost identical to that on Ice Mountain:



This is in response to Mr. Tim Vought’s letter to the editor — Nov. 3, “Some simple facts.”

Mr. Vought states that “John Kott, is wrong to suggest 90 wind turbines will be placed on site over three phases.” Mr. Vought personally came to my home on June 21, 2006, to “sell” me on wind energy and the leasing of lands to Gamesa, lands I own in the proposed Shaffer Mountain Wind Industrialization Project.

On June 29, 2006, I sent a two-page letter to Mr. Vought in regards to his and Gamesa’s offer. This is a “quote” from that letter. “You stated (Tim Vought) that the first phase of wind-power development would consist of 30 wind-powered turbines, the first year (2007). Also, 30 more to follow in the second phase, which would be approximately two years, with other phases being considered.” You stated this would be a definite because of the vast land holdings of Berwind Corporation (7,935 + acres) which were leased to Gamesa. Berwind-Gamesa lease of Nov. 22, 2005, in effect Gamesa leases the Windber Area Authority Watershed! Mr. Vought, John Kott was definitely 100 percent right in his statement!

You state “An independent engineer testified that Gamesa’s best management practices will bring a net benefit to the watershed after construction.” Let me remind you that you and Gamesa wanted to locate a concrete batch — plant for the entire project at the Iron Bridge on Clear Shade Creek an Exceptional Value Stream!

Your proposed “lay-down” area, for the entire project, documented in your plans and mappings filed with Somerset Soil Conservation and DEP would have clear-cut 10-15 acres or more approximately 100 feet from another Exceptional Value Stream — Piney Run! Also, your and Gamesa’s plan to “hang” an inclined highway from the valley floor to the top of Crum Ridge is nothing more than major degradation! Imagine a 60-foot wide road traversing up the ridge — how high will the “High-Wall” be and also the height of the “fill side!” If these are examples of your and Gamesa’s “best management practices” Lord help Shaffer Mountain!

You than personally — in you letter — try to degrade the entire Shaffer Mountain area. You state “this is not an untouched wilderness.” You talk about an active stone quarry adjacent to Gamesa’s development but you conveniently leave out the fact that this quarry is on the fringe of the development and borders the thousands of acres of “stripped” land owned by Berwind Corporation. Site your Wind-Turbines on that “stripped” land, after all — you leased it — didn’t you?

Also in regards to that quarry, it is contained on flat land. Gamesa’s Wind Turbines will be spread-out over a vast area with turbine clearings, inter-connecting roads and transmission lines. All placed upon the many ridges within Shaffer Mountain with soil erosion being the foremost concern, as well as the destruction of the forest, forest surface, and fragile eco-system!

Your quote “There is significant damage to the timber in many portions of the mountain from recent infestations of gypsy moths.” Mr. Vought, our problems with gypsy moths in the area were in the early 1980s. The mountain has recovered quite nicely.

Again, your quote, “The Windber Area Authority has cut down almost as many trees over the past several years on Shaffer Mountain than Gamesa will cut for it is entire wind project.” Upon reading this quote, I thought my eyes were deceiving me, so I read it again. This statement is not only false, it is also absurd.

In closing, your letter to the editor, “Some simple facts” turns out to be another Gamesa “smoke-screen” containing nothing more than spin, half-truths, and in some cases such as the Windber Area Authorities cutting of timber — totally false and untrue statements!

Joseph J. Cominsky

“Save-The-Mountain”

Windber

The Daily American

14 November 2007

[sandstone]

[quote="sandstone"]During Tuesday's forum, Gamesa Mid Atlantic Director of Development Ellen Lutz stated that the noise issues affecting landowners near the Allegheny Ridge Wind Farm would be investigated by Gamesa engineers the next day (Wednesday) and that the noise issues would be corrected within 48 hours. According to inmybackyard, who is one of the affected landowners, nothing has yet been investigated or corrected:

"Just an update on our situation in Blue Knob, which is the phase one of the windfarm, and includes Juniata, Greenfield and Portage townships. To be clear, NO, nothing has been done. Babcock and Brown blames Gamesa for faulty blades and now "taping" issues on the leading edge of the blades, and rotor noise. Gamesa says they are aware of this problem and will be fixing it. However, the noise is dependent ofn the topography, the speed of the rotation of the blades and the pitch of the blades, which are all contolled by a person at the computer. All they need to do, is to slow them down when they are making increased noise. They say it is one issue after another, and the noise continues. We, at Juniata township are commisioning our own sound study, to prove they are breaking the ordinance of 45dB, and they have 60days to fix it, or we will place an injuction on them and shut them down until all issues are fixed.
We haven't seen and cranes necessary to service these beasts, and wonder what they are actually "fixing". "

Check this out! Absolutely unbelieveable! Below is an artice from the Johnstown Tribune Democrat describing the same problem as above. Check out the date!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:

November 14, 2007 • Pennsylvania
Noisy rotors a 'minor problem'

PORTAGE — A noisy rotor problem on some turbines in the Allegheny Ridge Wind Farm was described Tuesday as “minor,” and localized to just some of the 40 turbines at the Cambria-Blair county farm.

“We have been working with Babcock & Brown and we have a schedule set up for repair,” said Ellen Lutz, Gamesa Inc.’s director of development for the Atlantic Region.

Correcting the problem may ease some concerns by residents living in the heart of the wind farm in the Blue Knob area, where Portage, Greenfield and Juniata townships meet.

But residents – including Myrle Baum – are not optimistic. Baum said at times the operating windmills sound like a jet going over his house.

The wind farm was developed by Gamesa and sold earlier this year to Babcock & Brown, which operates the energy generating facility.

Babcock & Brown spokesman Matt Dallas said Monday the company is aware of residents’ complaints and is working with Gamesa to correct the rotor problem.

Lutz said a “small cluster” of windmills are creating what she termed as a “whistling blade,” and the problem can be fixed within days.

Plans are to conduct a sound analysis the first week of December to help Gamesa pinpoint the troublesome rotors, followed by corrective action.

“It’s a localized problem. It’s a pretty minor problem,” she said.

Monday, the Juniata Township supervisors said they would hire a Mechanicsburg sound expert to conduct tests.

The three townships have ordinances in place limiting the noise from the turbines to 45 decibels, about the sound level of a refrigerator.

A sound study done by the residents shows times when the turbines were producing levels topping 70 decibels.

A similar request is expected for Portage Township.

By Kathy Mellott

The Tribune-Democrat

13 November 2007

[George M.]

I'm sorry if Bill Latchford decided to no longer contribute to this forum, but I hope he may still monitor its postings. Just in case, perhaps someone should forward this posting to him since it may be of interest given his seeming reliance on PennFuture as a credible source of independent info. Bill's posting of PennFuture's carefully controlled and highly edited interview with CEO of PJM revealed yet another example of "spin" coming from an organization that has deep and long ties to the wind industry.

Following is documentation which I've discovered on the web which conclusively shows that PennFuture has been working in close partnership with the wind industry for over 5 years - so close that they have allowed their group's name and office to support lobbying efforts to benefit the wind industry using funds mainly obtained from the wind industry.

I hope this info will reveal to Bill and others that PennFuture should not be viewed as an impartial or credible source of information or opinion on matters related to wind energy development.

The Mid-Atlantic Renewable Energy Coalition (MAREC) is being managed as a special project by the non-profit Citizens for Pennsylvania's Future (aka PennFuture). PennFuture only came into existence in 1999. MAREC/PennFuture funded a large lobbying effort in MD in 2004, which helped to pass the region’s 2nd RPS law. MAREC/PennFuture hired more lobbyist than all the other environmental groups in the state – combined!

Following is a portion of a blurb describing MAREC from a USDOE website:
http://www.eere.energy.gov/windandhydro ... itemid=246
“Location: PA Contact: Peter Adels Phone: 215-569-9695 [this is PennFuture's phone #]
John Hanger, president and CEO of PennFuture, is the public spokesperson for MAREC, which has a 2001 fundraising goal of $750,000. In addition to its regional renewable energy mass-marketing campaign, MAREC conducted a state-specific 2001 Wind Campaign in Pennsylvania. For more information about MAREC, contact Peter Adels.”

Peter Adels is listed as being the "general counsel" for PennFuture, and was hired by that group's president/CEO - John Hanger (who used to be legal counsel to and then served as a Commissioner on PA's Public Utility Commission - see:
http://www.energypulse.net/centers/author.cfm?at_id=308). Hanger and Adels previously shared a law practice (Hanger and Adels) which focused on energy issues in PA.

In MD, MAREC through PennFuture, lobbied extensively in 2003 to push for passage of a MD Renewable Portfolio Standards (RPS) law - and thereby greatly expand demand for wind energy development in PA (since MD's 7.5% demand could not be satisfied by in-state sources) - see: http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/re ... y?id=20254. In 2004, MAREC/PennFuture funded 5 lobbyists in the firm of Alexander and Cleaver, PA (perhaps the most powerful and expensive lobbyists in MD) – including Casper Taylor, who recently lost re-election and thus did not return as Speaker of the House of Delegates of MD legislature. US Wind Force funded 3 of those same 5 lobbyists in 2004 - including Cas Taylor. This can be confirmed by checking "Employer List No. 6" for the period ending Nov. 2004 at: http://ethics.gov.state.md.us/listing.htm, which shows the employers of all the registered lobbyists who pursued the MD legislature.

If you check the bottom of page 129 of 181 of that list (i.e., http://ethics.gov.state.md.us/Nov-Emp04.rtf), you can see that MAREC hired 5 lobbyists to work the MD legislature in 2004 - and MAREC expressly linked its name with PennFuture and provided PennFuture's mailing address as its business address.

Furthermore, MAREC raised over $1-million in 2003, mostly from wind enegy developers and consultants (at $10,000 minimum level each)- e.g., 30 or more firms of the wind industry, such as Clipper, FPL Energy, GE Wind, Atlantic Renewables, Curry and Kerlinger, etc.; see slides # 8-10 in Peter Adels powerpoint presentation given to a conference :
http://www.eere.energy.gov/greenpower/c ... dels03.pdf .

Hanger gave a presentation that discussed MAREC in 2002, and he claimed that MAREC's finances would be handled by PennFuture using "segregated accounts" with "quarterly statements" - see especially slides 18-21 in: http://www.acore.org/pdfs/Hanger.pdf.

[George M.]

I have some follow-up comments in regards to Bill’s posting of the PennFuture’s interview with PJM executive [Mr. Pfirrman] – “PJM on wind”, which was first published in PennFuture’s newsletter of December 5, 2007.

Following is the question and PJM’s response:

PennFuture: What has been your experience with wind's capacity value?

Pfirrmann: Development-stage wind projects are analyzed on the basis of having a capacity value of 20 percent of their nameplate value. Although electricity demand on the PJM system reach a relative peak during winter when wind generation is greatest, the highest peak demand occurs in summer when wind generation is not as great. As we study the feasibility of interconnecting a proposed wind project with the grid, we anticipate that, during the summer peak demand periods, we will receive from that project an average of 20 percent of its maximum output. Experience is telling us that the amount is somewhat less than that, but wind does definitely have a capacity value. As the amount of installed wind capacity becomes more substantial, it will displace the need for some conventional, typically fossil-fuel-based, generation capacity.

Before I comment on PJM’s reply above, here is some background to help explain what is meant by “capacity value”.

To the extent that a generator can be dispatched or is likely to contribute some kWh's during the times when demand is greatest (e.g., summer afternoons), then it may be deemed to have a "capacity value" by grid managers and thus may be rated as such. For instance, PJM initially awards all new wind projects with a capacity value rating that is equivalent to 20% of their turbines' nameplate capacity, i.e., PJM assumes a 100 MW wind project has the capability of contributing generation equivalent to 20 MW during summer afternoons (i.e., between 2 and 6 PM from June 1 through Aug. 31, inclusive - http://www.pjm.com/contributions/pjm-ma ... df/m21.pdf). However, PJM requires the capacity value rating of all wind projects to be continually adjusted via a cumulative 3 year averaging methodology. It's best to think of "capacity value" as a rating which reflects a generator's "capability" to contribute generation during specific times of need.

Consequently, a key point of PJM’s answer above is that wind energy projects initially were projected to have only a 20% capacity value (i.e., “20% of maximum output”), and thus would contribute just a modest amount of electricity during summer afternoons – which is the time when PJM knows it has the year’s highest demand for electricity. However, “experience is telling” PJM that these wind energy projects are operating “somewhat less than that [20% capacity value]”.

We are left to wonder “how much less than 20% capacity value” is “somewhat less”. Either PJM’s executive didn’t reveal the actual range of capacity values for the 10 or so wind projects now operating in the region, or PennFuture decided not to print it. However, my guess is that a 10% capacity value for wind turbines in our portion of PJM's grid region may be high.

Regardless, even if wind turbines actually do have as much as a 15% capacity value, it would mean that you would have to have about 10,000 MW of wind turbines operating in order to equal the summer afternoon output achieved by adding a 1,600 MW reactor to any one of the existing Susquehanna (PA), Calvert Cliffs (MD) or North Anna (VA) nuclear power plants (all of which may have such an expansion plan in the works).

[anne onimous1]

Thanks for all of the above info. These folks are all in cahoots. They come in to these small depressed towns and talk a big game and know that the officials usually have the town in the red and any amount of money sounds good. At what cost? They get what they want and the citizens pay for it in the long term. If you think your energy bills will go down, that is absolutely incorrect. They will actually increase. Why should any town who allowed these wind turbines to be built have to spend over three grand for another 'expert" to come and measure noise levels. There are alot of out of pocket expenses for these municipalites. Who ends up paying for it in the long run? The little guy. Including the 70 + percent who did'nt want the turbines in the first place.