Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

[sandstone]

I hope they give this company a definite NO and that an excuse is not found to somehow prolong this for further studies, etc... only to have them (Gamesa or whoever) come back thru here again, with all their newly aquired "RESEARCH" and or findings, in turn, putting the community thru all of this again.
Look what they have done and/or said to the communities south of us !!! They put these turbins up... then say they are going to do their "RESEARCH" for sometime afterwards concerning the bird/bat mortality, noise, and other effects.... this is after the fact, it's too late .... by then, no matter what the results, the turbines are up and up they will stay !!!

Gamesa was given 3 definitive NOs in Logan Township, but they still keep torturing local residents:

Logan Township Planning Commission, August 2006: NO to industrial windplant zone expansion north of Route 36

Logan Township Board of Supervisors, November 2006: NO to industrial windplant zone expansion north of Route 36

Logan Township Board of Supervisors, May 2007: NO to industrial windplant zone expansion north of Route 36

Now, they're AGAIN asking the Logan Township Board of Supervisors to expand the industrial windplant zone north of Route 36!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:


Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines
by sandstone on Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:56 am

An example of Gamesa's disrespect for communities from today's Altoona Mirror, page 1:

After the Logan Township Board of Supervisors denied Gamesa's request to enlarge their industrial windfarm zone north to beyond Route 36 in November 2006, Gamesa made the same request in May of 2007 and was again denied. Now, just 6 months later, Gamesa again is demanding that Logan Township expand the windplant zone north to beyond Route 36!!!!!!!!sandstone
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines
by twinsmom on Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:28 pm

For those of us who do not subscribe to the Mirror, here is the link to read the entire article.
http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/conte ... ml?nav=742twinsmom
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines
by Ice Man on Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:22 pm

sandstone wrote:
An example of Gamesa's disrespect for communities from today's Altoona Mirror, page 1:

After the Logan Township Board of Supervisors denied Gamesa's request to enlarge their industrial windfarm zone north to beyond Route 36 in November 2006, Gamesa made the same request in May of 2007 and was again denied. Now, just 6 months later, Gamesa again is demanding that Logan Township expand the windplant zone north to beyond Route 36!!!!!!!!

Gamesa's never-ending demands to expand Logan Township's industrial windplant zone are beginning to sound like a BROKEN RECORD!

[150thBucktailCo.I]

It's a wear-down-tactic, Sandstone. Undoubtedly.

The more publicity Gamesa can get, the more wind energy is viewed as "good efficient alternative energy", and the more they are able to influence (or BS, take your pick) the public into thinking the Gamesa actions are positive regardless of the little negative issues that go along with their windplants that have arisen... will eventually and probably allow Gamesa to be able to put more pressure on Logan Township leaders to cave to their advances. Or next election cycle they'll try to get their candidates/supporters elected into Logan offices, if they cannot manipulate the 5 who are currently there now.

[sandstone]

It's a wear-down-tactic, Sandstone. Undoubtedly.

The more publicity Gamesa can get, the more wind energy is viewed as "good efficient alternative energy", and the more they are able to influence (or BS, take your pick) the public into thinking the Gamesa actions are positive regardless of the little negative issues that go along with their windplants that have arisen... will eventually and probably allow Gamesa to be able to put more pressure on Logan Township leaders to cave to their advances. Or next election cycle they'll try to get their candidates/supporters elected into Logan offices, if they cannot manipulate the 5 who are currently there now.

You've been proven right on your predictions so far, so the scenario you describe wouldn't surprise me.

[anne onimous1]

HOW CAN YOU BE SURE THAT BILL IS THE ONLY COUNCIL MEMBER TO VIEW THIS FORUM

I am going to step in here for a moment and remind everyone about the specific topic at hand - the turbines.

I was very pleased to have Bill enter into our forum as the only member of the Council to do so, so far. He has been patient and overly vocal on the topic at hand, and has contributed much to the discussion.

This thread has made it this far without turning into a mob, or witch hunt, and for that I am thankful, and oddly, proud. However, recently I have found myself wanting to turn back the clock a bit and remove some of the strongly voiced opinions that I'm sure have hurt the feelings of a few members on this board.

If this thread at some point, turns inward on the members that post here, I will lock it without hesitation, and possibly address members one-on-one as to our policies and rules of etiquette.

I'm am not asking everyone to be best friends, but to have open discussion with tolerance towards others' opinions and viewpoints. If you have things that would be best said in a private message, or phone call, please do so in that manner.

Thank you, and I too, am eager to see the outcome of this issue.

Thanks all, Rick

[sandstone]

HOW CAN YOU BE SURE THAT BILL IS THE ONLY COUNCIL MEMBER TO VIEW THIS FORUM

You can't, but Councilman Latchford has been the only council members who has participated in this forum.

I was very pleased to have Bill enter into our forum as the only member of the Council to do so, so far. He has been patient and overly vocal on the topic at hand, and has contributed much to the discussion.

This thread has made it this far without turning into a mob, or witch hunt, and for that I am thankful, and oddly, proud.

Thank you, and I too, am eager to see the outcome of this issue.

Thanks all, Rick

[anne onimous1]

I guess I should have said participated. Anyone can view the forum, but how can Rick state that Bill is the only council member to participate. Maybe the only one to participate, not using an alias.....

[Ice Man]

I hope they give this company a definite NO and that an excuse is not found to somehow prolong this for further studies, etc... only to have them (Gamesa or whoever) come back thru here again, with all their newly aquired "RESEARCH" and or findings, in turn, putting the community thru all of this again.
Look what they have done and/or said to the communities south of us !!! They put these turbins up... then say they are going to do their "RESEARCH" for sometime afterwards concerning the bird/bat mortality, noise, and other effects.... this is after the fact, it's too late .... by then, no matter what the results, the turbines are up and up they will stay !!!

Gamesa was given 3 definitive NOs in Logan Township, but they still keep torturing local residents:

Logan Township Planning Commission, August 2006: NO to industrial windplant zone expansion north of Route 36

Logan Township Board of Supervisors, November 2006: NO to industrial windplant zone expansion north of Route 36

Logan Township Board of Supervisors, May 2007: NO to industrial windplant zone expansion north of Route 36

Now, they're AGAIN asking the Logan Township Board of Supervisors to expand the industrial windplant zone north of Route 36!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:


Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines
by sandstone on Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:56 am

An example of Gamesa's disrespect for communities from today's Altoona Mirror, page 1:

After the Logan Township Board of Supervisors denied Gamesa's request to enlarge their industrial windfarm zone north to beyond Route 36 in November 2006, Gamesa made the same request in May of 2007 and was again denied. Now, just 6 months later, Gamesa again is demanding that Logan Township expand the windplant zone north to beyond Route 36!!!!!!!!sandstone
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Location: Sinking Valley Top
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines
by twinsmom on Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:28 pm

For those of us who do not subscribe to the Mirror, here is the link to read the entire article.
http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/conte ... ml?nav=742twinsmom
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Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:40 pm Top
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines
by Ice Man on Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:22 pm

sandstone wrote:
An example of Gamesa's disrespect for communities from today's Altoona Mirror, page 1:

After the Logan Township Board of Supervisors denied Gamesa's request to enlarge their industrial windfarm zone north to beyond Route 36 in November 2006, Gamesa made the same request in May of 2007 and was again denied. Now, just 6 months later, Gamesa again is demanding that Logan Township expand the windplant zone north to beyond Route 36!!!!!!!!

Gamesa's never-ending demands to expand Logan Township's industrial windplant zone are beginning to sound like a BROKEN RECORD!

I consider Gamesa's behavior in Logan Township to be a form of terrorism.

[Ice Man]

It's a wear-down-tactic, Sandstone. Undoubtedly.

The more publicity Gamesa can get, the more wind energy is viewed as "good efficient alternative energy", and the more they are able to influence (or BS, take your pick) the public into thinking the Gamesa actions are positive regardless of the little negative issues that go along with their windplants that have arisen... will eventually and probably allow Gamesa to be able to put more pressure on Logan Township leaders to cave to their advances. Or next election cycle they'll try to get their candidates/supporters elected into Logan offices, if they cannot manipulate the 5 who are currently there now.

You've been proven right on your predictions so far, so the scenario you describe wouldn't surprise me.

Actually, more and more people are becoming aware of the downsides of windplants. As Kris Yaniello wrote in the Daily Herald a few days ago: "There is an increasing rise of borough residents who are now voicing their concerns about the possible wind farm; with some residents flat out not wanting Gamesa as a neighbor on the mountain." 5 years ago these things weren't even considered. The huge bat kills occurring at windplants weren't even discovered till 2003. Nobody thought about the noise issue when the Allegheny Ridge Wind Farm was being built. Now, it's a huge issue. Who knows what other detrimental effects these facilities will be responsible for?

[anne onimous1]

You're correct IceMan. These companies come in and strongarm those "in charge." That is why it is so important to keep them out in the first place. Especially the companies that have absolutely nothing good to contribute to the community in the first place.

[Rick]

I guess I should have said participated. Anyone can view the forum, but how can Rick state that Bill is the only council member to participate. Maybe the only one to participate, not using an alias.....

Sorry, anne onimous1

My fault for being to vague with the sentence...

I was very pleased to have Bill enter into our forum as the only member of the Council to do so, so far.

I would like to clarify and replace that sentence with following one.

"I was very pleased to have Bill enter into our forum as the only openly acknowledged member of the Council to do so, so far."

[My2Cents]

If only somehow, someway some of the photographs we have viewed on this site of these turbines overpowering everything can be shared with the public in a way that it cannot be ignored... if only the public could be shown how the beautiful ridge tops in the state of New York is being completely overtaken by these things.... the whole of the United Kingdom is being taken over...a beautiful, beautiful country... one turbine can completely overpower Big Ben !! Was just thinking the other day..... the tallest building, that I know of, in our town is the Pennsylvania House... there are 9 floors... assuming that they have eight foot ceilings on each floor... the Pennsylvania House would then be approximately seventy-two feet high.... it would take approximately 6 Pennsylvania Houses stacked on top of each other to nearly equal the height of one of these turbines, which is said to be 420 feet..... and they are planning to put they say 25 ( it most likely will be more) on Ice Mountain !!! Can you imagine all that additional weight on Ice Mountain ??? "Sandy Ridge Wind Farm"..... sandy, as in SAND !!! It's perfect, it's beautiful as it is right now.... we cannot take any chance by allowing these people to come in here and tear up our ridge tops.... aside from the results of the deforestation...and what it is going to do to our wildlife.... eventually, overtime our precious watershed will be in grave danger !!! If there were only some way to get most of the community to see and understand what is potentially in store if this is allowed to happen around here. They also need to be told that their utility bills will not be lowered and explained to as why. Those things are not all going to sit up there as a pretty little turbine farm for thirty years..... they are going to cause us a lot of problems. Also, as a matter of fact, within thirty years, this wind farm idea will be a farce..... it will not work !!! This is NOT the way for Tyrone, PA.

[My2Cents]

It's a wear-down-tactic, Sandstone. Undoubtedly.

The more publicity Gamesa can get, the more wind energy is viewed as "good efficient alternative energy", and the more they are able to influence (or BS, take your pick) the public into thinking the Gamesa actions are positive regardless of the little negative issues that go along with their windplants that have arisen... will eventually and probably allow Gamesa to be able to put more pressure on Logan Township leaders to cave to their advances. Or next election cycle they'll try to get their candidates/supporters elected into Logan offices, if they cannot manipulate the 5 who are currently there now.

You've been proven right on your predictions so far, so the scenario you describe wouldn't surprise me.

I too was wondering about this. I was thinking, if the council does vote NO for these things coming in here... can Gamesa sit back and wait for the next election of officers, while in the meantime dishing out more propaganda to our public ?? Is there anyway to tell them NO means NO... bye ??!!

[My2Cents]

Another windplant noise article in the Business section of today's Altoona Mirror: http://altoonamirror.com/page/content.d ... ml?nav=725

Tempers flare over wind turbine noise
By Kristy MacKaben, For the Mirror POSTED: January 10, 2008

Despite efforts to repair wind turbines in Juniata Township, Blair County, they still are generating unbearable noise to some residents.

Tempers flared at a Juniata Township supervisors meeting Monday night as residents voiced their frustrations.

Supervisors agreed to contract Paul Heishman, a professional engineer, to conduct an independent noise study by Jan. 30, when all repairs are expected to be complete.

Babcock and Brown, owners and operators of the turbines in the township and neighboring municipalities, have repaired half of the turbines and will repair the rest by Jan. 30.

‘‘There was some tape that was put on the trailing edge of the turbine blades. That tape was peeling off and causing a noise,” said Matt Dallas, public relations officer for Babcock and Brown. “Ironically, I think the tape is put on to make them quieter. They either used the wrong kind of glue or not enough was used, which is causing the noise.”[color=#FF0000]Gamesa built the turbines[/color] two years ago; in June, Babcock and Brown bought the wind farm that has four turbines in Juniata and several others in Greenfield and Portage townships.

Still, I cannot believe the above !!! This absolutely amazes me !!! These turbines, costing millions of dollars, and an excuse for the noise was "tape was applied to make them quieter" and "they either used the wrong type of glue or not enough was used" and "the tape was peeling off causing the turbines to make noise."
Gamesa built the turbines... Babcock and Brown bought the farm !!!
Gamesa is outa' there !!! Babcock and Brown are now left with the problems !!!
These windmills are making noise... Babcock and Brown are trying to fix the problem !!!
Then, when the repairs are made a professional engineer will then come in and conduct an independent noise study...
OMG, I just cannot believe this... I mean really !!!
Who's gonna' pay this independent engineer to do these studies... ???

[Rick]

I was asked by a member to offer up the attached document (PDF)

5 mi radius of Ice Mtn - FAA 7460-1 Applications for tall structures.pdf

(131.86 KiB) Downloaded 259 times

[caddis]

I have a question regarding the person on 3rd street who seems to be leading the charge against the windmills on Ice Mountain. Is this person claiming that the reason they don't want the windmills is to protect the enviorment? I ask this because if you drive past there property you will see that they have NAILED big signs to there trees,and correct me if I am wrong or out of line, but doesn't driving spikes in the trees cause enviormental damage? This is just something I seen while driving by and thought I would ask. I am not a tree hugger but its like the old man said " do as I say not as I do".Sorry if I got of the current subject but I had to point this out.