Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

[sandstone]

ONCE THE LEASE IS SIGNED, THERE IS GOING TO BE MORE THAN 10 or 15 turbines... there is a total of 30 showing on that map. If the lease is signed they can put as many as they want up there and put them where ever they want and IT WILL BE TOO LATE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT THEN .

The property owned by the Borough of Tyrone cannot support more than 15 industrial-scale wind turbines. These turbines cannot be spaced too closely together because their vortices will affect downwind turbines. 10 turbines on borough land is a more realistic figure.

[sandstone]

Also at last evening’s work session, Decker Hollow resident Richard Baumgardner spoke to council during public comment about the proposed Gamesa wind farm on Ice Mountain. Baumgardner said he would be the closest home to the wind farm, and that his property on Alder Run Orchard adjoins the borough’s watershed property.
Baumgardner informed council that his home would be within 2,000 feet of the project, and that he is in favor of the wind farm. He said that he has made trips to other wind farms in Pennsylvania and feels that the noise levels of the turbines are “overblown.”
“Our county is a good spot for clean energy, and I think the wind mills are rather majestic looking,” said Baumgardner.
Baumgardner stated that he feels Gamesa does a “good job” with its projects and that borough council should vote for the wind farm project on Ice Mountain. He added that he is not presently being compensated by Gamesa.

http://www.tyronepa.com/news/article.php?id=11205

Rich Baumgardner is a Snyder Township contractor and was member of its Planning Commission until it was dissolved 2 months ago. During the Planning Commission's deliberations regarding the Snyder Township draft windplant ordinance, he made it known that he was being courted by Gamesa to have industrial turbines installed on his property on Ice Mountain.

I can vouch for the veracity of the Ice Man's statement above, because I was at that Snyder Township Planning Commission meeting.

[sandstone]

Also at last evening’s work session, Decker Hollow resident Richard Baumgardner spoke to council during public comment about the proposed Gamesa wind farm on Ice Mountain. Baumgardner said he would be the closest home to the wind farm, and that his property on Alder Run Orchard adjoins the borough’s watershed property.
Baumgardner informed council that his home would be within 2,000 feet of the project, and that he is in favor of the wind farm. He said that he has made trips to other wind farms in Pennsylvania and feels that the noise levels of the turbines are “overblown.” “Our county is a good spot for clean energy, and I think the wind mills are rather majestic looking,” said Baumgardner.
Baumgardner stated that he feels Gamesa does a “good job” with its projects and that borough council should vote for the wind farm project on Ice Mountain. He added that he is not presently being compensated by Gamesa.

http://www.tyronepa.com/news/article.php?id=11205

Rich Baumgardner is a Snyder Township contractor and was member of its Planning Commission until it was dissolved 2 months ago. During the Planning Commission's deliberations regarding the Snyder Township draft windplant ordinance, he made it known that he was being courted by Gamesa to have industrial turbines installed on his property on Ice Mountain.

I'd say the noise issue is "underblown."

Officials look to crack down on wind noise; Two townships commission studies

February 10, 2008 by Kay Stephens in Altoona Mirror

Complaints about wind turbine noise from the Allegheny Ridge Wind Farm could find their way into the court system this year, depending on what happens in the coming weeks.

A Jan. 31 deadline for repairs to be made has passed, and Juniata Township residents still are asking for relief.

Engineer Paul Heishman of Mechanicsburg, an expert in measuring noise levels, has started a study to determine if the noise is louder than permitted by township ordinance.

Portage Township in Cambria County plans to have Heishman conduct a separate study, Supervisor Ed Decort said.

If Heishman determines the noise is excessive, Juniata officials say they will move forward with steps to enforce their ordinance.

Solicitor Michael Routch said that means sending a violation notice to owner Babcock & Brown, telling the company it has 30 days to come into compliance before the township starts imposing daily fines. If needed, the township can go to district court for help, Routch said.

Heishman told the Mirror last week that he has no target date to finish his work because progress will be influenced by weather and weather-related factors.

He also said he has to finish reviewing the noise study Babcock & Brown commissioned in late December.

That study, by Epsilon Associates, used readings collected on four consecutive days. It concluded that under the worst conditions, turbine noise does not violate the township ordinance.

Routch, who previously wrote to Babcock & Brown seeking for the noise to be addressed, advised supervisors and residents that they must wait for Heishman's report before taking additional action.

While Routch received no written response to his letter, company personnel in January pledged to remove peeling tape from wind turbine blades, an action expected to reduce the noise. The work was to be done by Jan. 31.

‘‘We're still living with it,'' Todd Stull told Juniata supervisors at their recent monthly meeting.

His wife, Jill, said she has collected the names of 60 people from Juniata, Greenfield and Portage townships who object to the turbine noise or shadow flicker. Her desire, she said, is less noise.

‘‘I want them to slow down [the turbines] so I don't hear them. ... I want to be able to live with them peacefully,'' she said.

In Greenfield Township, supervisors say they will enforce ordinance violations but will wait to learn what Heishman tells Juniata.

‘‘I need some substantial verification,'' Greenfield supervisors Chairman Alton Ebersole told Juniata residents asking for help.

He said Greenfield residents have not filed complaints with the township, but Jill Stull said her petitions include names of 18 or 19 residents of Greenfield's Piper Hollow.

Greenfield supervisors said they would enforce their ordinance to quiet wind turbines inside the township's border if they are disturbing residents in a neighboring township.

‘‘The ordinance has to be enforced where there is a violation,'' Supervisor Bill Lightner said.

Greenfield Supervisor Ed Helsel, whose property borders the Stulls, said the noise varies.

On a morning when Helsel considered it to be loud, he said he shut the window and could barely hear it.

Jill Stull, whose property is closer to turbines, said she shuts her windows and stills hears the noise.

‘‘They're loud enough to make me wake up,'' Todd Stull said. ‘‘This is noise pollution.''

In 2005, Juniata, Greenfield, Portage, Washington and Cresson townships adopted identical ordinances to govern wind turbines.

Portage Township solicitor Calvin Webb said at the time that the 11-page document covered every issue that could be a problem.

Todd Stull said the ordinances don't require an environmental impact study that would have taken topography and wind impact into account.

"If they did an environmental impact study, the [wind turbines] would be farther than 2,000 feet from my house," he said.

Web link: http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/content.detail/i...

[My2Cents]

ONCE THE LEASE IS SIGNED, THERE IS GOING TO BE MORE THAN 10 or 15 turbines... there is a total of 30 showing on that map. If the lease is signed they can put as many as they want up there and put them where ever they want and IT WILL BE TOO LATE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT THEN .

The property owned by the Borough of Tyrone cannot support more than 15 industrial-scale wind turbines. These turbines cannot be spaced too closely together because their vortices will affect downwind turbines. 10 turbines on borough land is a more realistic figure.

Oooop's thanks for the clarification sandstone. I was taking into account the whole Sandy Ridge Wind Farm project. There is a map on the Gamesa web site showing the noise factor and the potential placement area of each turbine on the ridge tops... it is that map that is showing a total of 30 turbine placements.
Still, 10 turbines on borough land, is 10 turbines too many.

[Mommamoo]

What concerns me about all this is, what's going to happen to these windmills after Gamesa is no longer taking care of the maintanence on them. I was at a Borough meeting where they told us that after 29 1/2 years they will no longer be maintaining them. What kind of a mess does that leave our children and grandchildren?
Also, that the windmills will be in our watershed is also a huge concern.

[GAM123]

I sure hope this "new" money offer doesn't change the minds of any council members that had already chosen to vote against this project. I hope they realize that all the money in the world won't bring Ice Mtn back if Gamesa is allowed to deface it. This just goes to show how slimy this company can be.

Please don't let the issue of funding the Treatment Plant (aka Chesapeake Bay Initiative) interfer with this decision either as I am confident Fed and State monies will soon be allocated to remedy this situation.

I appreciate this decision has just been made tougher but pleeeeze remember, Money ain't everything!

[salaman]

Shoddy work and poor process.....

Wind turbine company lays off 70
Gamesa Inc., the Spanish wind turbine company, has laid off dozens of employees at its Falls site in an effort to correct problems in its tower manufacturing operation. Julius Steiner, the company's CEO of U.S. operations, said Wednesday the team producing the wind-generating towers at Falls was underperforming. The employees - many of them were welders - took longer to produce the towers and mistakes increased construction costs, he said. "The problem was that we weren't building a tower that was competitive with the ones getting made by a subcontractor," Steiner said. ...Some of the workers were members of the United Steelworkers Union, which represents 400 employees at the site. While acknowledging errors were made that slowed production, union spokesman Rob Witherall said production process issues deserved a share of the blame.
March 6, 2008 by John Anastasi in Bucks County Courier Times

Gamesa Inc., the Spanish wind turbine company, has laid off dozens of employees at its Falls site in an effort to correct problems in its tower manufacturing operation.

Julius Steiner, the company's CEO of U.S. operations, said Wednesday the team producing the wind-generating towers at Falls was underperforming. The employees - many of them were welders - took longer to produce the towers and mistakes increased construction costs, he said.

"The problem was that we weren't building a tower that was competitive with the ones getting made by a subcontractor," Steiner said. "The quality we put out had to meet our specifications, so the quality was the same. But the cost to produce the towers was not."

Gamesa recently evaluated the welders' skill levels and decided to lay off about 30 welders and about 40 other employees, some of whom held management and administrative positions.

"We determined what people had the necessary skills to produce the product we're making and we decided to keep them," he said.

Some of the employees laid off this week could be offered other positions at Gamesa's three plants in the Keystone Industrial Port Complex. Rather than replace departing workers, Gamesa will scale back its operation to one shift per day, provide additional training and eventually build back up to three shifts, Steiner said.

"We're working with welding training companies that can come in and improve the skills of the guys we're keeping," he said. "Any time you have people displaced, it's not a pleasant situation. We tried to handle it as humanely as possible."

Some of the workers were members of the United Steelworkers Union, which represents 400 employees at the site. While acknowledging errors were made that slowed production, union spokesman Rob Witherall said production process issues deserved a share of the blame.

"They're a startup and there's a learning curve," said Witherall. "Part of what's going on is that they're going from zero to 60 so quickly they realized they have a lot of problems they need to fix. I think they needed to slow down and get a handle on those operations."

Witherall said he hopes that once that happens, some of the employees would be rehired.

Steiner said Gamesa would do what it takes to restructure and rebuild the plant's operations.

"We are very committed to our U.S. project and we think the future is really very, very bright," he said. "We're going to continue to invest here."


Web link: http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/ ... 99118.html"

[Ice Man]

Senator Eichelberger expresses his opinion on wind development in PA at town hall meeting

By KRIS YANIELLO Tyrone Daily Herald
Staff Writer
March 5, 2008

http://tyronepa.com/news/article.php?id=11209

Pennsylvania's 30th District Senator John H. Eichelberger, Jr. held a public town hall meeting last night at the Tyrone Senior Center. Among the many topics brought up in the room of nearly 200 concerned and interested Tyrone residents, neighboring residents and local officials, was wind development not only in Tyrone and the 30th District, but in Pennsylvania in general.

Senator Eichelberger fielded questions from those in attendance addressing people's concerns about wind energy development and the effects it has locally and around the state. The senator believes that the bottom line is that wind energy development is "mostly a feel good approach" to the energy problem.

"At the end of the day, it's going to have almost no impact on energy generation," said Eichelberger. "Between one and one and a half percent of the total energy generation in Pennsylvania if they build all the windmills they want to build is what the impact would be."

The state government wants to build around 4,000 miles of windmills in Pennsylvania. Eichelberger said that the one and one and a half percent energy generation assumption is the state's projected impact, which doesn't mean that it would even be that high.

The senator said that there are many questions about the effects of having windmills anywhere close to people's homes, and he feels that there is going to be government intervention either from local ordinances which is what's being done now, or from state regulations, which is what is not being done presently in Pennsylvania.

"I think that the local governments lack the expertise to identify the correct issues, and they're all different," said Eichelberger. "There's siting issues that are different in each particular place where they're looking to site these windmills, so I think that it should be the state's role to set forth some good regulations on the siting of windmills."

He added, "It would be an aide to local municipalities."

Senator Eichelberger continued by saying that the wind generation in Pennsylvania is just not as significant as it is in other parts of the country. He said that is part of the problem with the situation in Tyrone. People aren't against the technology, but against whether or not wind development should be done here when it could be done in other places where the electricity generation is multiple times what it is in Pennsylvania.

"We're shipping most of the generation out of state," said Eichelberger. "We're not getting any benefit here except for some monetary benefit, but if we drive down property values, if we lose people from the community, then the few thousand dollars they make will not be worth it."

Eichelberger added that he and his colleagues in Harrisburg are looking at trying to come up with some kind of siting regulations for wind developers. He said that a lot of people think that local governments want to make these decisions with wind farms and that they want to customize it locally, but he thinks most of the local governments he's talked to, not speaking for Tyrone, actually would welcome some kind of expertise coming from somewhere else.

"We're looking at coming up with a statutory remedy or regulatory remedy that we'd work with DEP (Department of Environmental Protection) on, and see if we can do something statewide," said Eichelberger. "Of course, the municipalities would have to agree with it."

The senator also addressed the question of placing windmills on state public lands, and he thinks that will eventually happen. Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell is a strong supporter of wind development.

"The last I talked with the PA Game Commission, they have not permitted it (windmills) on game commission land, but DCNR (Department of Conservation and Natural Resources) I think will end up probably putting them on DCNR land, although they haven't yet," stated Eichelberger.

Eichelberger added that there are a lot of issues with the wind turbine sites dealing with water run-off, noise, strobing and the effect on birds and wildlife that need to be addressed.

Representatives from the Pittsburgh based company PennFuture, who support wind energy development in Pennsylvania, were present at the town hall meeting last night, and the senator “resented” the fact that an out-of-town entity would come into Tyrone to try and influence its residents.

"There are many questions about the effects of having windmills anywhere close to people's homes, and PennFuture is a group that has received money from Gamesa," said Eichelberger.

"They're (PennFuture) not from the area, they're people from out of the area who are coming here to try and influence the people in Tyrone - and I don't think that's appropriate at all."

[Bill Latchford]

What concerns me about all this is, what's going to happen to these windmills after Gamesa is no longer taking care of the maintanence on them. I was at a Borough meeting where they told us that after 29 1/2 years they will no longer be maintaining them. What kind of a mess does that leave our children and grandchildren?
Also, that the windmills will be in our watershed is also a huge concern.

That is the length of the lease agreement. At the end of the lease if there is not a re negotiation of the lease then the decommissioning process would start, which there is monies set aside from the beginning to take them down when their usefulness has expired.

[Bill Latchford]

Senator Eichelberger expresses his opinion on wind development in PA at town hall meeting

By KRIS YANIELLO Tyrone Daily Herald
Staff Writer
March 5, 2008

http://tyronepa.com/news/article.php?id=11209


Representatives from the Pittsburgh based company PennFuture, who support wind energy development in Pennsylvania, were present at the town hall meeting last night, and the senator “resented” the fact that an out-of-town entity would come into Tyrone to try and influence its residents.

"There are many questions about the effects of having windmills anywhere close to people's homes, and PennFuture is a group that has received money from Gamesa," said Eichelberger.

"They're (PennFuture) not from the area, they're people from out of the area who are coming here to try and influence the people in Tyrone - and I don't think that's appropriate at all."

- So it is ok that the opponents of Wind Turbines are not from the town...But let a group that is interested in having the Turbines here come in then those in opposition are screaming that is not appropriate. Hmmmmm...so if there were a group in town that was put together who was in favor of the Turbines and then had PennFuture come in, it would be ok then right?

[My2Cents]

Shoddy work and poor process.....

Julius Steiner, the company's CEO of U.S. operations, said Wednesday the team producing the wind-generating towers at Falls was underperforming. The employees - many of them were welders - took longer to produce the towers and mistakes increased construction costs, he said. "The problem was that we weren't building a tower that was competitive with the ones getting made by a subcontractor," ...

Web link: http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/ ... 99118.html"

Ahhhh.... 'tis another excuse in the process. Blame it on the employee's.

[sandstone]

Senator Eichelberger expresses his opinion on wind development in PA at town hall meeting

By KRIS YANIELLO Tyrone Daily Herald
Staff Writer
March 5, 2008

http://tyronepa.com/news/article.php?id=11209


Representatives from the Pittsburgh based company PennFuture, who support wind energy development in Pennsylvania, were present at the town hall meeting last night, and the senator “resented” the fact that an out-of-town entity would come into Tyrone to try and influence its residents.

"There are many questions about the effects of having windmills anywhere close to people's homes, and PennFuture is a group that has received money from Gamesa," said Eichelberger.

"They're (PennFuture) not from the area, they're people from out of the area who are coming here to try and influence the people in Tyrone - and I don't think that's appropriate at all."

- So it is ok that the opponents of Wind Turbines are not from the town...But let a group that is interested in having the Turbines here come in then those in opposition are screaming that is not appropriate. Hmmmmm...so if there were a group in town that was put together who was in favor of the Turbines and then had PennFuture come in, it would be ok then right?

Please share with us the names of those who are "screaming."

[My2Cents]

I sure hope this "new" money offer doesn't change the minds of any council members that had already chosen to vote against this project. I hope they realize that all the money in the world won't bring Ice Mtn back if Gamesa is allowed to deface it. This just goes to show how slimy this company can be.

Please don't let the issue of funding the Treatment Plant (aka Chesapeake Bay Initiative) interfer with this decision either as I am confident Fed and State monies will soon be allocated to remedy this situation.

I appreciate this decision has just been made tougher but pleeeeze remember, Money ain't everything!

Thank's GAM123... you are so very right !!! All at once, everything is starting to come into the picture as to what we need to do around here and how much money it is going to cost us. Gamesa has already mentioned before what we can spend our money on if we allow the turbines in our area. This is a scare tactic among all scare tactic's as far as the public is concerned. There are many folks out there without computers, or reading the daily news papers, some are only going by gossip and here-say... bottom line, all they hear is rising costs, higher taxes and that the wind mills will save their day.
At least, the fourteen hundred people who have signed the petition against this wind farm, know the circumstances. Plus, there are many, many, more out there paying more attention and beginning to understand.
Thank goodness we have a good council in place and that those, who will be voting, did not just cast a vote last fall. They are listening to us, as I mentioned before... please keep the faith, they have a lot on their shoulders.

[banksy]

Just vote these dang things out and be done with it. What more does council need to hear. What do the leaders of Tyrone need to hear to end this and move on. They have a ton of support from those who live in Tyrone not to put these in, but yet there is no decision. My take is that they are just waiting for the right out of town opponent to make the right comment that will allow them to justify the decision they know they want to make now. If they wanted to say NO they would have done it already.

[sandstone]

Just vote these dang things out and be done with it. What more does council need to hear. What do the leaders of Tyrone need to hear to end this and move on. They have a ton of support from those who live in Tyrone not to put these in, but yet there is no decision. My take is that they are just waiting for the right out of town opponent to make the right comment that will allow them to justify the decision they know they want to make now. If they wanted to say NO they would have done it already.

Sure seems that way, although as time goes on more and more people are joining SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN!