Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

[Mommamoo]

I agree with Banksy, their hoping we will all go away, then they'll sneak in the back door with it. Thats been working for Bill Miller and his hand picked school board for years.

[sandstone]

Senator Eichelberger expresses his opinion on wind development in PA at town hall meeting

By KRIS YANIELLO Tyrone Daily Herald
Staff Writer
March 5, 2008

http://tyronepa.com/news/article.php?id=11209


Representatives from the Pittsburgh based company PennFuture, who support wind energy development in Pennsylvania, were present at the town hall meeting last night, and the senator “resented” the fact that an out-of-town entity would come into Tyrone to try and influence its residents.

"There are many questions about the effects of having windmills anywhere close to people's homes, and PennFuture is a group that has received money from Gamesa," said Eichelberger.

"They're (PennFuture) not from the area, they're people from out of the area who are coming here to try and influence the people in Tyrone - and I don't think that's appropriate at all."

- So it is ok that the opponents of Wind Turbines are not from the town...But let a group that is interested in having the Turbines here come in then those in opposition are screaming that is not appropriate. Hmmmmm...so if there were a group in town that was put together who was in favor of the Turbines and then had PennFuture come in, it would be ok then right?

Does anyone know what Councilman Latchford is talking about in his post above?

Which opponents of the windfarm are screaming about (or even commenting on) PennFuture's presence at the Town Hall meeting?

[Bill Latchford]

- We have had opponents or at least one opponent scream at a meeting and then we do have Senator Eichelberger who does not support the Wind Turbines and outwardly said and I quote:

"They're (PennFuture) not from the area, they're people from out of the area who are coming here to try and influence the people in Tyrone - and I don't think that's appropriate at all."

That is fine, for we all are certainly allowed to have our own opinions. I should have put it this way, lets just say if PennFuture came in and was spreading the word that Wind Turbines are a great thing, I am sure this argument would heat up fast. Now Dr. Kotala is not from Tyrone, but he, I guess lives close enough that people would say he is from the area and is supposedly allowed to influence the people of Tyrone. But still he is from out of town and he has been the one I have heard from more than others. He has had everyone on this particular board quoting him many times over. I had even quoted him a few times, because I do consider him an expert in some arenas. But could you imagine if someone quoted PennFuture on here, Oh yes I did like probably 50 pages ago, and was told that because PennFuture is a big supporter of Wind Development that they could not be trusted. So people are only to trust people who are opposed to Wind Turbines, in this particular topic I suppose?

[banksy]

Bill:

I agree with you 100% that it should not matter where factual evidence comes from, evidence is evidence. What I would like to ask is why hasn't council voted NO to this yet? I can only assume that they feel they do not have enough information to vote No and as such as still considering the Windmills. These debates have really proven that for every fact in favor there will be one against. Sometimes you just have to say enough is enough and make a decision either way. Time to stop waffling.

[Bill Latchford]

Bill:

I agree with you 100% that it should not matter where factual evidence comes from, evidence is evidence. What I would like to ask is why hasn't council voted NO to this yet? I can only assume that they feel they do not have enough information to vote No and as such as still considering the Windmills. These debates have really proven that for every fact in favor there will be one against. Sometimes you just have to say enough is enough and make a decision either way. Time to stop waffling.

Banksy: I truly have no idea where Council stands on this. I only supply information if one asks me. I am unable to really go into much detail while in Council session due to my conflict of interest. When Council speaks / negotiates with Gamesa on Monday, I will preclude myself by leaving while they are in executive session. I to agree that if the debates would go on that is just basically an argument that can not be won because there is no compromise it seems when it comes to "Ice Mountain". In regards to the waffling comment, I only base my thoughts on the knowledge I have at that moment. I am always being fed new information from both sides, good and bad information from both sides and I just find myself always weeding through it. It has certainly been a time consuming topic.

[Ice Man]

- We have had opponents or at least one opponent scream at a meeting and then we do have Senator Eichelberger who does not support the Wind Turbines and outwardly said and I quote:

"They're (PennFuture) not from the area, they're people from out of the area who are coming here to try and influence the people in Tyrone - and I don't think that's appropriate at all."

That is fine, for we all are certainly allowed to have our own opinions. I should have put it this way, lets just say if PennFuture came in and was spreading the word that Wind Turbines are a great thing, I am sure this argument would heat up fast. Now Dr. Kotala is not from Tyrone, but he, I guess lives close enough that people would say he is from the area and is supposedly allowed to influence the people of Tyrone. But still he is from out of town and he has been the one I have heard from more than others. He has had everyone on this particular board quoting him many times over. I had even quoted him a few times, because I do consider him an expert in some arenas. But could you imagine if someone quoted PennFuture on here, Oh yes I did like probably 50 pages ago, and was told that because PennFuture is a big supporter of Wind Development that they could not be trusted. So people are only to trust people who are opposed to Wind Turbines, in this particular topic I suppose?

So you were talking about Senator Eichelberger when you said "But let a group that is interested in having the Turbines here come in then those in opposition are screaming that is not appropriate."

In Kris Yaniello's article it said;

Eichelberger added that there are a lot of issues with the wind turbine sites dealing with water run-off, noise, strobing and the effect on birds and wildlife that need to be addressed.

Representatives from the Pittsburgh based company PennFuture, who support wind energy development in Pennsylvania, were present at the town hall meeting last night, and the senator “resented” the fact that an out-of-town entity would come into Tyrone to try and influence its residents.

"There are many questions about the effects of having windmills anywhere close to people's homes, and PennFuture is a group that has received money from Gamesa," said Eichelberger.

Why do you not see any conflict of interest where an exchange of money is involved? Gamesa pays PennFuture and PennFuture comes from Pittsburgh to Tyrone to promote windfarms. You freely criticize Dr. Stan Kotala who has spoken out against turning Ice Mountain into an industrial windfarm. Do you think that Dr. Kotala's motives are selfish? Does he have anything personally to gain by keeping Ice Mountain in its natural state? He lives more than 10 miles from Ice Mountain. Don't you think that he'd rather be relaxing and spending time with his family or hiking or fishing or whatever else his hobbies may be? No one is paying Dr. Kotala to come to the council meetings. He's a physician, so instead of waiting around at council meetings or writing letters he could be practicing medicine and getting paid but instead he engages in altruistic activities only to be belittled and criticized. Gamesa's hucksters all are being paid. They're working for a mulitmillion dollar company that has come up against strong resistance from ordinary people who are defending their natural heritage. More than 1,400 people have signed the petition, yet you constantly make it seem like Dr. Stan Kotala is the only one opposed to the windplant.

[Ice Man]

- We have had opponents or at least one opponent scream at a meeting and then we do have Senator Eichelberger who does not support the Wind Turbines and outwardly said and I quote:

"They're (PennFuture) not from the area, they're people from out of the area who are coming here to try and influence the people in Tyrone - and I don't think that's appropriate at all."

But could you imagine if someone quoted PennFuture on here, Oh yes I did like probably 50 pages ago, and was told that because PennFuture is a big supporter of Wind Development that they could not be trusted. So people are only to trust people who are opposed to Wind Turbines, in this particular topic I suppose?

I trust Dr. Kotala, who is not being paid for his work to save Ice Mountain, more than I trust PennFuture, which has received money from Gamesa and is interceding on Gamesa's behalf.

[Something to say]

If this council has a conscience...and a will to serve the people....they will vote no...and represent the majority of the voting public. Frankly... I'll be surprised if they vote no. The money that Gamesa is dangling over their head is wayyyy to enticing. You'd think they were going to be handed millions. And the fact is.....someone is going to make millions....and it's not going to be Tyrone. The very fact that they're dragging their feet is speaking volumes. And again.....if they go against their constituents and vote yes......I'd hope all of you turn out in huge numbers in future elections and get rid of the whole bunch of them. If all your footwork and effort to Save Ice Mountain is ignored....get rid of your council. I find it completely arrogant that 8 people would go against the wishes of the people that elected them to office because THEY think they know what is best for a community. ( If the community didn't care one way or another...that would be a different story...but a great number of people from 16686 came out and signed a petition against this project )

[Bill Latchford]

Why do you not see any conflict of interest where an exchange of money is involved? Gamesa pays PennFuture and PennFuture comes from Pittsburgh to Tyrone to promote windfarms. You freely criticize Dr. Stan Kotala who has spoken out against turning Ice Mountain into an industrial windfarm. Do you think that Dr. Kotala's motives are selfish? Does he have anything personally to gain by keeping Ice Mountain in its natural state? He lives more than 10 miles from Ice Mountain. Don't you think that he'd rather be relaxing and spending time with his family or hiking or fishing or whatever else his hobbies may be? No one is paying Dr. Kotala to come to the council meetings. He's a physician, so instead of waiting around at council meetings or writing letters he could be practicing medicine and getting paid but instead he engages in altruistic activities only to be belittled and criticized. Gamesa's hucksters all are being paid. They're working for a mulitmillion dollar company that has come up against strong resistance from ordinary people who are defending their natural heritage. More than 1,400 people have signed the petition, yet you constantly make it seem like Dr. Stan Kotala is the only one opposed to the windplant.

- Thank you fro bringing that up...That does have to come into play when groups are given money to lobby for something...In either case, no one can certainly fault Dr. Kotala's dedication to this cause. He has certainly invested a huge amount of time to our area in regards to this matter. I guess I have only looked at it as some sort of vendetta against Gamesa. I believe I may have been a bit off in my thinking in that respect. You don't invest that much time into something, especially out side your own community, if you don't have some deep convictions in what you are doing. Anytime you stick your head up above the waters you take the risk of getting criticized, not matter what your cause is. Get into any form of public office and you are an instant target. Anyhow "IceMan" good points for all to keep in mind :thumb:

[Ice Man]

Why do you not see any conflict of interest where an exchange of money is involved? Gamesa pays PennFuture and PennFuture comes from Pittsburgh to Tyrone to promote windfarms. You freely criticize Dr. Stan Kotala who has spoken out against turning Ice Mountain into an industrial windfarm. Do you think that Dr. Kotala's motives are selfish? Does he have anything personally to gain by keeping Ice Mountain in its natural state? He lives more than 10 miles from Ice Mountain. Don't you think that he'd rather be relaxing and spending time with his family or hiking or fishing or whatever else his hobbies may be? No one is paying Dr. Kotala to come to the council meetings. He's a physician, so instead of waiting around at council meetings or writing letters he could be practicing medicine and getting paid but instead he engages in altruistic activities only to be belittled and criticized. Gamesa's hucksters all are being paid. They're working for a mulitmillion dollar company that has come up against strong resistance from ordinary people who are defending their natural heritage. More than 1,400 people have signed the petition, yet you constantly make it seem like Dr. Stan Kotala is the only one opposed to the windplant.

- Thank you fro bringing that up...That does have to come into play when groups are given money to lobby for something...In either case, no one can certainly fault Dr. Kotala's dedication to this cause. He has certainly invested a huge amount of time to our area in regards to this matter. I guess I have only looked at it as some sort of vendetta against Gamesa. I believe I may have been a bit off in my thinking in that respect. You don't invest that much time into something, especially out side your own community, if you don't have some deep convictions in what you are doing. Anytime you stick your head up above the waters you take the risk of getting criticized, not matter what your cause is. Get into any form of public office and you are an instant target. Anyhow "IceMan" good points for all to keep in mind :thumb:

You thought that Dr. Stan Kotala was spending hundreds of hours of his time to engage in a VENDETTA against Gamesa? VENDETTA implies that Dr. Stan Kotala has been harmed by Gamesa. I'm not aware of any way that he's been harmed. Perhaps if he lived near a windplant you could say that, but he doesn't. He lives in Sinking Valley. What's more, Gamesa has been planning an industrial windfarm at Horseshoe Curve in Logan Township since 2005 and Juniata Valley Audubon and Dr. Kotala don't oppose it because it's being built in an area already fragmented by strip mines. That windplant would be much closer to his house than Ice Mountain is. In any case, his short bio in the SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN press release should have made it obvious to you that Dr. Kotala is no newcomer to conservation battles. What's left out of the bio is that he was one of the primary opponents of the Logan Town Centre project and is one of the primary opponents of the proposed Kettle Creek Planned Residential Development, which seeks to convert 200 acres of forested mountainside in Logan Township into a 500 unit housing development. Dr. Kotala certainly has got a lot on his plate and is not receiving money for his labors.

Here is his bio from the SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN press release:

Dr. Stan Kotala has been a lifelong nature enthusiast and conservationist. He began birding at age 12 and has been a member of the National Audubon Society for thirty years and the Pennsylvania Society for Ornithology for close to two decades. He is also a member of the Sinking Valley Watershed Association, the Pennsylvania Federation of Sportsman's Clubs, Shaver's Creek Environmental Center, the National Wildlife Federation, and the Wilderness Society. Dr. Kotala has served as president, newsletter editor, conservation chair, education chair, membership chair, and Important Bird Area coordinator for Juniata Valley Audubon, based in Altoona. He was the conservation chair and education chair for Blair County Trout Unlimited during the 1990s. He currently serves on the board of directors of the Little Juniata River Association, the Fort Roberdeau Association, and Rails-to-Trails of Central Pennsylvania. From 1996 till 2004 he was the Western Ridge and Valley Regional Coordinator for the Pennsylvania Herpetological Atlas Project and now serves on the Amphibian and Reptile Technical Committee of the Pennsylvania Biological Survey and on the Reptile and Amphibian Advisory Committee of the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission. He also is the wildlife and endangered species chair and wetlands chair on the Executive Committee of the Moshannon Group of the Sierra Club. Dr. Kotala is a DCNR water quality monitoring volunteer at Canoe Creek State Park near Hollidaysburg. He serves on the Watershed Protection Committee of the Altoona City Authority and on the steering committee of the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory as well as on the Centre County Greenways steering committee. Dr. Kotala has worked with several municipalities in Blair and Centre Counties over the past 3 years to assist in the crafting of ordinances that protect residents and our natural heritage from the deleterious effects of industrial windplants and currently serves on the Wind Power Siting Committee of the Pennsylvania Chapter of the Sierra Club.
Dr. Kotala earned his medical degree from Temple University in Philadelphia and has practiced medicine in Blair County since 1988. He lives with his wife and daughter in Sinking Valley.

[sandstone]

I agree with Senator Eichelberger's assessment of industrial windplants in Pennsylvania as described in the article below:

Senator Eichelberger expresses his opinion on wind development in PA at town hall meeting

By KRIS YANIELLO
Staff Writer
March 5, 2008

Pennsylvania's 30th District Senator John H. Eichelberger, Jr. held a public town hall meeting last night at the Tyrone Senior Center. Among the many topics brought up in the room of nearly 200 concerned and interested Tyrone residents, neighboring residents and local officials, was wind development not only in Tyrone and the 30th District, but in Pennsylvania in general.

Senator Eichelberger fielded questions from those in attendance addressing people's concerns about wind energy development and the effects it has locally and around the state. The senator believes that the bottom line is that wind energy development is "mostly a feel good approach" to the energy problem.

"At the end of the day, it's going to have almost no impact on energy generation," said Eichelberger. "Between one and one and a half percent of the total energy generation in Pennsylvania if they build all the windmills they want to build is what the impact would be."

The state government wants to build around 4,000 miles of windmills in Pennsylvania. Eichelberger said that the one and one and a half percent energy generation assumption is the state's projected impact, which doesn't mean that it would even be that high.

The senator said that there are many questions about the effects of having windmills anywhere close to people's homes, and he feels that there is going to be government intervention either from local ordinances which is what's being done now, or from state regulations, which is what is not being done presently in Pennsylvania.

"I think that the local governments lack the expertise to identify the correct issues, and they're all different," said Eichelberger. "There's siting issues that are different in each particular place where they're looking to site these windmills, so I think that it should be the state's role to set forth some good regulations on the siting of windmills."

He added, "It would be an aide to local municipalities."

Senator Eichelberger continued by saying that the wind generation in Pennsylvania is just not as significant as it is in other parts of the country. He said that is part of the problem with the situation in Tyrone. People aren't against the technology, but against whether or not wind development should be done here when it could be done in other places where the electricity generation is multiple times what it is in Pennsylvania.

"We're shipping most of the generation out of state," said Eichelberger. "We're not getting any benefit here except for some monetary benefit, but if we drive down property values, if we lose people from the community, then the few thousand dollars they make will not be worth it."

Eichelberger added that he and his colleagues in Harrisburg are looking at trying to come up with some kind of siting regulations for wind developers. He said that a lot of people think that local governments want to make these decisions with wind farms and that they want to customize it locally, but he thinks most of the local governments he's talked to, not speaking for Tyrone, actually would welcome some kind of expertise coming from somewhere else.

"We're looking at coming up with a statutory remedy or regulatory remedy that we'd work with DEP (Department of Environmental Protection) on, and see if we can do something statewide," said Eichelberger. "Of course, the municipalities would have to agree with it."

The senator also addressed the question of placing windmills on state public lands, and he thinks that will eventually happen. Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell is a strong supporter of wind development.

"The last I talked with the PA Game Commission, they have not permitted it (windmills) on game commission land, but DCNR (Department of Conservation and Natural Resources) I think will end up probably putting them on DCNR land, although they haven't yet," stated Eichelberger.

Eichelberger added that there are a lot of issues with the wind turbine sites dealing with water run-off, noise, strobing and the effect on birds and wildlife that need to be addressed.

Representatives from the Pittsburgh based company PennFuture, who support wind energy development in Pennsylvania, were present at the town hall meeting last night, and the senator “resented” the fact that an out-of-town entity would come into Tyrone to try and influence its residents.

"There are many questions about the effects of having windmills anywhere close to people's homes, and PennFuture is a group that has received money from Gamesa," said Eichelberger.

"They're (PennFuture) not from the area, they're people from out of the area who are coming here to try and influence the people in Tyrone - and I don't think that's appropriate at all."

[My2Cents]

When Council speaks / negotiates with Gamesa on Monday, I will preclude myself by leaving while they are in executive session.

Hummmm... I wonder what this is all about ??
"speaks / negotiates" ... "executive session" ??
Is this going to be another one of Gamesa's, "public not invited," sessions ??
Another wheeling and dealing behind closed doors... backing our council into a corner ??
I'm not sure where it is, I read it somewhere... this company came into an area, set up shop, took over the town, throwing their money and grandios ideas around... bought the kids baseball uniforms, etc, etc... Is that going to be the next step for us ?? Even if there are 1,400 signatures on a petition from the residents of this community who are against this wind farm on Ice Mountain... are they going to try to offer council a deal they can't refuse ??

[Bill Latchford]

When Council speaks / negotiates with Gamesa on Monday, I will preclude myself by leaving while they are in executive session.

Hummmm... I wonder what this is all about ??
"speaks / negotiates" ... "executive session" ??
Is this going to be another one of Gamesa's, "public not invited," sessions ??
Another wheeling and dealing behind closed doors... backing our council into a corner ??
I'm not sure where it is, I read it somewhere... this company came into an area, set up shop, took over the town, throwing their money and grandios ideas around... bought the kids baseball uniforms, etc, etc... Is that going to be the next step for us ?? Even if there are 1,400 signatures on a petition from the residents of this community who are against this wind farm on Ice Mountain... are they going to try to offer council a deal they can't refuse ??

- Council would have an Executive session to discuss anything from personnel, legal matters, land sales, etc...This is a non public meeting being held before or after a regular Council meeting. I think this is something they are going to be discussing particularly about the lease and I feel that, because of my conflict, I should not be present for it.

[banksy]

In regard to thinking Kolata is "out of town" for the most part I think most people consider Sinking Valley folks part of Tyrone. When it comes to conservation, that is more of a global community and not one bound by Borough lines. Kolata isn't unique. There are thousands of people like him all over the planet who feel the good of the planet supersedes Borough lines. People can continue to debate this issue here, but honestly this is a dead issue in terms of debate. Those who feel one way or another have their decisions and for the most part.

This is a simple decision. It is clear the windfarms create a bad situation for protected, migratory birds and are a noise irritant to those who live anywhere near them. The energy they produce will in no means pay any monetary benefit to the residents of Tyrone. The power will be sent to the grid and not be used directly to anyone in Tyrone. The only monetary benefit comes from the lease. Make your decision. Does the money outweigh the negative impacts of ecological detriment and resident unhappiness? If it does, put them in, if not, get them out and get Gamesa out of the Tyrone lexicon.

Let me add one thing here, if you were to put them in, can't you find an American company, not one from Spain? With the state of jobs in America it makes no sense to invest in a Spainsh company. I understand the outsourcing of installation is American workers, but the company profits go to Spain, not the US.

[My2Cents]

Kris Yaniello, Staff Writer for the Tyrone Daily Herald, has been doing and outstanding job in his unbiased, accurate, and thorough reporting of all the events that are coming to a head in our little town right now. Especially, most recently, his reportings on the wind mill situation.
In many cases, the Tyrone Daily Herald is the only source of information that some people in our hometown have. Few folks in this town (except for the younger generation) are computer savy.... they know nothing concerning all the informative information that has been introduced on this board. Our newspaper, and channel 10 news, is all they know and all they have to depend on.
It's obvious, in his reportings, that he has been attending all the after hour town meetings that have been held out there, also, taking of his time to go on a "field trip" excursion to Blue Knob.... plus, other things that are too numerous to mention. I would be willing to bet a lot of this was done on his own time.
As I mentioned above... all reporting has been unbiased, pure and simple facts, which have been brought forth throughout all of the issues at hand.
Thank you Kris, please know that all your hard work has not gone unnoticed, all is very much appreciated.