Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

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Ice Man
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Ice Man »

AEI Special Report: Wind energy noise impacts

March 14, 2008 by Acoustic Ecology Institute

Summary:
This document authored by Acoustic Ecology Institute provides a comprehensive overview of noise issues pertaining to utility-scale wind energy development. This AEI Special Report will be continually updated, incorporating new research, more recent reports, and suggestions/comments from readers. Planned topics to be added over time include: effects of noise on wildlife and habitat, offshore wind energy, and the health effects of chronic noise exposure.

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INTRODUCTION

Wind energy has long been a favorite of many environmental advocates. No carbon emissions, utilizing a free resource without depleting it in the least, even the potential for distributed generation rather than distant centralized power plants: for many of us, wind was the cleanest of green power sources in our dreams of the energy future.

In recent years, as wind turbines have grown from the small backyard kits that the truly committed built in the 70's, the reality has made those dreams become less certain. Modern wind turbines are massive structures, hundreds of feet tall, and often constructed in large wind farms that in effect industrialize rural landscapes, from the rolling grassy hills of California, to the vast rangeland of Texas, to ancient ridgelines in the Appalachians, to the commons in rural England. While the trade-offs may be worth it in some areas, the downsides have become more apparent. Resistance to wind farms is often belittled as NIMBY-ism (Not In My Backyard); but at the same time, proponents often slip into oversimplifeid WARYDU rhetoric (We Are Right; You Don't Understand). If we are to forge a reliable energy future that is respectful of both the environment and the rights of neighbors, we'll need to move past knee-jerk reactions on both sides, and develop best practices that can ensure that the landscape and local residents don't become long-term casualties of today's "Klondike Wind Rush."

This AEI Spotlight Report will focus specifically on the noise impacts of wind turbines and wind farms. However, it is worth mentioning some of the other concerns that rural residents have raised about the sudden appearance of industrial wind farms in their communities. Besides the visual blight, which many residents are, in the end, willing to accept as a tradeoff for producing clean energy, the most common argument against wind energy is that wind farms are notoriously inefficient, rarely achieving even half their rated capacity, due to fluctuating winds. A more important long-term issue, still flying mostly under the radar, is that lease agreements between land owners and power companies can be full of holes, raising the very real specter of ridge lines and rangelands becoming, over time, abandoned junkyards of massive metal hulks, rusting and disintegrating for decades.

It is entirely possible that ongoing technical innovation, combined with closer legal scrutiny, can overcome these issues. Similarly, noise impacts are not necessarily deal-killers for wind energy, as long as developers are honest about what is likely to be heard and continue to work diligently to investigate the aspects of wind turbine noise that are still not fully understood. Continually improving turbine design will likely mean that tomorrow's turbines are not as noisy as today's. Local residents should be sure that their fears are not based on others' experiences with older turbines, and wind energy advocates must be diligent in not glossing over potential noise impacts. With continual incorporation of best technology and best practices in siting, wind energy need not be stymied by noise issues. However, with noise impacts gaining more public credence, it is clear that the current boom in wind farm development could well backfire, for both the industry and a clean energy future, if the current generation turbines are sited too close to residences. The Altamont Wind Farm in California, shortsightedly built on a major raptor flyway in the early years of industrial wind development, has rippled through the years as a poster child for the bird-killing power of wind turbines, despite widespread understanding that it was an exceedingly bad siting decision. Similarly, many noise complaints today seem to be coming from people whose homes are on the near edge of fairly loose siting guidelines (within 500 meters in many cases, and often much less). If the thousands of windfarms likely to be built in the coming decade are placed too close to homes, the industry will be faced with an echoing chorus of complaints and resistance for years to come, even if it manages to invent much quieter machines. Better to be conservative, accepting the fact that even occasional atmospheric effects should be factored in to siting decisions today, so as to build a reservoir of good will, rather than a rising tide of complaints.

A key point is made in a study completed in 2007 by the National Research Council, the research arm of the National Academy of Sciences, which found conflicts are widespread because of a fundamental reality of wind power. The environmental costs -- visual impacts, noise, landscape and wildlife disturbances -- are primarily felt by those near the wind farm. The benefits, however (reduced global warming emissions and other air pollution, less dependence on foreign oil and less mining and drilling) are felt more on the regional or national scale. "Benefits and (costs) don't necessarily affect the same people," said David Policansky, who directed the study. "If you talk to a national representative of an environmental organization, it's quite likely that person will be in favor. Whereas, when you talk to a local representative, it is more likely that person will be opposed to some local project."

This AEI Special Report is designed to provide a layman's introduction to the types of noise produced by wind turbines. It is not our intention to over-emphasize noise complaints, but rather to provide information that can foster informed conversation about any specific wind farm proposal. A recent UK government survey suggests that only about 20% of wind farms tend to generate noise complaints; the question is, what are the factors in those wind farms that may be problematic, and how can we avoid replicating these situations elsewhere? [more ...]

Editor's note: The full document can be accessed by clicking on the link below.

Web link: http://www.acousticecology.org/srwind.html
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

Ice Man, I hope I'm wrong, but, I don't think anyone is going to listen to anything anymore and, eventually, the town will suffer the consequences. $$$$ money talks$$$$ especially, in this neck-of-the-woods. They, "big brother," knew that from the very beginning.
Just from listening to people talk, most still have no clue. What a shame...
I do hope there is still something out there that can turn this around.
To those who gave freely of their time and poured their heart and sole into trying to help our town from falling into this demise.... merely saying Thank You just doesn't seem like enough !!!
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Ice Man »

My2Cents wrote:Ice Man, I hope I'm wrong, but, I don't think anyone is going to listen to anything anymore and, eventually, the town will suffer the consequences. $$$$ money talks$$$$ especially, in this neck-of-the-woods. They, "big brother," knew that from the very beginning.
Just from listening to people talk, most still have no clue. What a shame...
I do hope there is still something out there that can turn this around.
To those who gave freely of their time and poured their heart and sole into trying to help our town from falling into this demise.... merely saying Thank You just doesn't seem like enough !!!
From the results of yesterday's windplant vote, we can see that no matter which way a council member votes, about half of the populace of the borough will be ticked off. Therefore, I don't think the poll results will change how each council member will vote.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

Thanks Ice Man...with that said, I will not give up and will keep the faith.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Bill Latchford »

My2Cents wrote:They, "big brother," knew that from the very beginning.
Just from listening to people talk, most still have no clue. What a shame...
As much as I hate to point out things like this, is it really fair to be saying so many people don't have a clue? Your talking about 600 + of the voting public. I am certain you would not like someone saying the 400 + that voted no didn't have a clue...That, to me that is a tad bit rude...people voted the way they wanted to...Yes or No I respect their votes. That is one of those great rights we have in this country that allow the silent to speak out. "VOTE"
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by salaman »

Bill Latchford wrote:
My2Cents wrote:They, "big brother," knew that from the very beginning.
Just from listening to people talk, most still have no clue. What a shame...
As much as I hate to point out things like this, is it really fair to be saying so many people don't have a clue? Your talking about 600 + of the voting public. I am certain you would not like someone saying the 400 + that voted no didn't have a clue...That, to me that is a tad bit rude...people voted the way they wanted to...Yes or No I respect their votes. That is one of those great rights we have in this country that allow the silent to speak out. "VOTE"
To vote in this country all you need to be is an eighteen year old citizen. You do not need to have any education, you do not even need to be able to speak our language! It would be interesting to know the demographics of those 600 yes votes. When I voted yesterday evening at the Snyder Township office, the ladies that were working at that polling place told me that you would not believe how many people were upset that they could not vote against this lease. If the borough of Tyrone decides to lease they will severely affecting the people of western Snyder Township. Why should the people of the township continue to shop and do business in Tyrone? If the borough decides to lease it will bitterly divide this area for the next 30 years, maybe longer. That is what industrial windfarms really are best at doing everywhere that they are installed!
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Bill Latchford »

From emails and such that I have got to posts like the last...I can certainly see where this will go now...Right on que...
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by 150thBucktailCo.I »

Bill,

My grandparents told me that the question posed wasn't even on a ballot on the voting machine... it was a poll conducted separately by kids at a table that was marking "Yes" or "No" with a pencil when voters were leaving the election place. Then they would mark off your voting receipt.

Hmmm.... that sounds like a "POLL" that could be easily manipulated. And in my opinion, God knows within the Boro of Tyrone, it is a rare occassion when things are 100% honestly done.

If that is true, and you are personally regarding that "poll" as being "scientific", then this "poll" is the biggest joke in the world. And if Boro Council considers that poll as being a valid opinion of the public, that is a complete travesty.

Ridiculous.
Last edited by 150thBucktailCo.I on Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

Bill Latchford wrote: That, to me that is a tad bit rude...people voted the way they wanted to...
Whoa.. let's not get it all twisted around now and try to make something into something it isn't. If you think I sounded "rude" I certainly do apologize. I was merely saying that there are some that are still not understanding what could possibly happen here. I'm including folks who didn't even vote. Everyone has a right to vote. Regardless of the outcome, regardless of what one thinks of the results, the public has spoken and we now know what the majority wants... that, in itself, means a lot and should be respected.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Bill Latchford »

150thBucktailCo.I wrote:Bill,

My grandparents told me that the question posed wasn't even on a ballot on the voting machine... it was a poll conducted separately by kids at a table that was marking "Yes" or "No" with a pencil when voters were leaving the election place. Then they would mark off your voting receipt.

Hmmm.... that sounds like a "POLL" that could be easily manipulated. And in my opinion, God knows within the Boro of Tyrone, it is a rare occassion when things are 100% honestly done.

If that is true, and you are personally regarding that "poll" as being "scientific", then this "poll" is the biggest joke in the world. And if Boro Council considers that poll as being a valid opinion of the public, that is a complete travesty.

Ridiculous.
"150thbucktail" You are correct that it was not on the ballot as a referendum. It was a non-binding survey. We on Council thought we would give the voting public a voice. Now we have more data. So there was a petition and now there is a survey, both of which are non-binding to Council. We want to make sure there is no way that the people of Tyrone can say they have not heard about the "Wind Turbines" in some form or another. Everyone has had a chance to voice an opinion. There are the silent ones now whom have had their voice heard and I feel that was very important to them. The opponents have had a big voice in all this, so why should the people that approve of it have a voice. I just personally feel those approving of such a project just don't want to get into the whole confrontational part of the issue, now they have had their say. So nothing, not the petition or this survey, is considered scientific. It is just people making their voices heard in different ways. I am sure everyone on here can agree that it is important for everyone to have a voice in this matter. :thumb:

P.S. Last time I checked I was not a kid...I worked the polls for 8 hours yesterday, along with other Council Members and volunteers. The kids, you say, were children from the high school that were picked out to help out with this civic activity, and I personally thank them and everyone that helped out.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Meaux »

Certainly the survey taken at polling places on 4/22/08 is not a definitive representation of the citizenry. Though Primary Day was for both parties I am certain it brought more Democrats out since they had the presidential vote to draw in voters. That being said, the numbers reported total 1094...20% of the 2000 census population of the borough of 5528.

Reasonably, this is one ADDITIONAL opinion but again, not definitive.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Doorman »

Well 55% of the registered Tyrone residents have spoken, Lets get this going.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by sandstone »

salaman wrote:
Bill Latchford wrote:
My2Cents wrote:They, "big brother," knew that from the very beginning.
Just from listening to people talk, most still have no clue. What a shame...
As much as I hate to point out things like this, is it really fair to be saying so many people don't have a clue? Your talking about 600 + of the voting public. I am certain you would not like someone saying the 400 + that voted no didn't have a clue...That, to me that is a tad bit rude...people voted the way they wanted to...Yes or No I respect their votes. That is one of those great rights we have in this country that allow the silent to speak out. "VOTE"
To vote in this country all you need to be is an eighteen year old citizen. You do not need to have any education, you do not even need to be able to speak our language! It would be interesting to know the demographics of those 600 yes votes. When I voted yesterday evening at the Snyder Township office, the ladies that were working at that polling place told me that you would not believe how many people were upset that they could not vote against this lease. If the borough of Tyrone decides to lease they will severely affecting the people of western Snyder Township. Why should the people of the township continue to shop and do business in Tyrone? If the borough decides to lease it will bitterly divide this area for the next 30 years, maybe longer. That is what industrial windfarms really are best at doing everywhere that they are installed!
I am EXTREMELY IMPRESSED with the 45% of voters in the Borough of Tyrone who chose to respect the natural heritage of Ice Mountain and resist the temptation of the $100,000+ per annum being dangled in front of them by the windplant developer.

Remember that the Borough of Tyrone is 3+ miles from the nearest proposed Sandy Ridge Wind Farm turbine.

I agree with Salaman that a higher rate of opposition is likely from Snyder Township residents. In any case, the Borough of Tyrone is the landowner, but land use is controlled by Snyder Township. The Borough of Tyrone and the windplant developer cannot do anything in Snyder Township that is not permitted by the Snyder Township Board of Supervisors. The Ice Man summed it up very well a few pages ago:


Municipalities have the right to control land use under the powers of the PA Municipalities Planning Code. Townships without zoning, such as Snyder, have the right to enact ordinances to protect township residents and the township's natural heritage from harm. If Snyder Township enacts an industrial windplant ordinance prohibiting industrial windplants within County Natural Heritage Areas, as neighboring Tyrone Township and Antis Township have done, then no industrial wind turbines could be built on Ice Mountain, because it is a Blair County Natural Heritage Area (see the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory at your local municipal office, the Blair County Planning Commission office, or the Blair County Conservation District office).
See the Antis Township Industrial Wind Plant ordinance at http://antistownship.org/antis/lib/anti ... inance.pdf

If Snyder chooses to allow industrial wind turbines, then it can regulate their placement through setbacks to property lines, setbacks to streams, setbacks to residences, noise limits, etc.. Realizing that its industrial wind turbine ordinance was too lenient in light of emerging problems at the Allegheny Ridge Wind Farm, Logan Township is toughening its industrial windplant ordinance, calling for stricter noise limits and more rigorous environmental studies. Logan Township has zoning and zoned Brush Mountain off-limits to industrial windplants because Brush Mountain is a Blair County Natural Heritage Area.


I salute the 45% of residents of the Borough of Tyrone who chose to respect their natural heritage and resist the temptation of filthy lucre. :flag:
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by sammie »

IMO, council members are responsible for educating themselves on this issue and hopefully they have done so. With all the scientific facts having been easily accessible to them for weeks now, a yes vote would be a vote for money, pure and simple.

Hopefully, council members will rise above the short-sightedness trap that is so tempting to many community leaders, but it doesn't look like it. What may seem like easy money now will have long lasting negative consequences. A community that insists that development be designed in harmony with nature will be a community that thrives into the future.

It is truly sad to see what is happening to the American landscape.

From today's Altoona Mirror:

Tyrone voters support Gamesa

April 23, 2008 by Greg Bock in Altoona Mirror

Secret ballot shows 55 percent in favor of turbines on Ice Mountain
If the voters of Tyrone Borough have their way, wind turbines will go on Ice Mountain.

A survey of voters outside the seven borough polling places showed 55 percent favored leasing watershed property to Gamesa USA.

Of the 2,932 registered Democrats and Republicans in the borough, 1,094 participated in the nonbinding, secret ballot poll.

Borough council members tallied the slips after the closing of the polls, with 601 for the lease and 493 against.

Council members Pat Stoner, Virgie Werner and Jen Bryan indicated Tuesday night that they would vote to enter into a 30-year lease with Gamesa.

Council member Jim Grazier has said in the past that he will make his decision known when he votes and gave no indication of how he would vote, although his voting record often reflects that of Werner, Stoner and Bryan.

Council member Steve Hanzir said in the past that he would do what the people wanted and said he was surprised by the vote.

"I had my eyes opened," Hanzir said.

Mayor Jim Kilmartin said he still hasn't made his decision, but the survey results would play into it.

Bryan said she was "pleasantly surprised" and indicated a vote likely would come soon.

"I think we're ready to move forward," Bryan said.

Bryan and Stoner said they initially were against the windmills, but they now support the plan.

Stoner said she always has said that she would do what the people of the borough wanted.

Werner said she was happy residents came out to take part.

"I appreciate the people who came in to vote," she said. "It helps us out a lot in making our decisions," Werner said.

Gamesa hopes to put up to 25 wind turbines on Ice Mountain in Snyder Township, Blair County and Taylor Township, Centre County.

The lease would pump $150,000 a year into the borough.

Web link: http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/content.detail/i...
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by 150thBucktailCo.I »

Doorman wrote:Well 55% of the registered Tyrone residents have spoken, Lets get this going.

No... there's no definitive proof of 55% of anything. Besides, this is a non-binding piece of public relations material. Nothing more.

And the PRO-side has done a great job at making sure the local media (TV, radio, and print) have all completely manipulated and incorrectly reported this story as sounding as if the entire town was involved in this "poll".

Can we expect a retraction? Very doubtful. Besides, the damage has been done with this story.

Gamesa and Latchford know it.
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