Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

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150thBucktailCo.I
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by 150thBucktailCo.I »

Bill Latchford wrote:I worked the polls for 8 hours yesterday, along with other Council Members and volunteers.

Hey Bill.... It's been brought to my attention that some citizens in Tyrone have an issue with that, and I also have an issue with that, and so should the council and the all the other citizens of Tyrone.

You are to be abstaining from voting on anything related to the windmills, I understand.

However, tell me why you were involved in working the polls that involves a supposedly PUBLIC WINDMILL VOTE, when you have been a supporter of the windmill movement and Gamesa?

You could've been influencing people's votes, if not manipulating it all together.

And especially since your employer is involved with Gamesa!!

I question the validity of your actions, as well as the validity of the supposed 55%.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by 150thBucktailCo.I »

Here's an email I received from a Tyrone citizen in regards to the "POLL" that was conducted.



We got a "stub" with a number on it. After voting we took the stub outside to a guy sitting at a cardtable. He put a yellow highlight marking across my stub, gave me the stub back and then gave me the paper to check my yes or no vote on. He had a stack of blank voteing papers sitting there in front of him to hand out. I was trying to think if he recorded the number down off of my voting stub...I can't for the life of me remember. I don't think he did but I'm not sure. If he didn't record the numbers, than it could have very well been rigged. As I was walking home I started thinking and wondering if someone could check off a bunch of yes votes and put them into that box. It came into my mind right away. What got my attention was the fact that the box was full of votes already cast and I thought to myself a lot of people have voted already (it was around 2 or 3 PM). Quite honestly, I can't believe that someone would do that though.

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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by anne onimous1 »

I do not understand why an issue this important was not on the ballot. Why should we entrust someone to sit at a table and check yes or no. This is not a third grade love letter, this is an issue that has generated more interest than anything I can remember in recent years. Bill Latchford should know when to step back and realize that he should not be involved in this issue in any capacity, at the polls or anywhere else. We have a desperate council that will do whatever it takes to generate revenue, regardless of the toll it may take on the quality of life of the people of Tyrone or the surrounding communities. Has this council learned nothing about the way Gamesa fails to maintain these turbines. That in itself should be a red herring. Get the dollar signs out of your eyes so that you can see clearly who you are willing to do business with.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Bill Latchford »

As I said...It was simple to figure out that when the results were read that some who oppose would go to certain extremes. Now it is of course proven. In either case I am abstaining from voting on the topic when it comes to a vote before Council. It was recommended that I don't speak to Council as a whole while in session. Guess what I have made no recommendations to Council. I am but one of eight. The last time I checked we were not a collective but individuals able to make up our own minds. Yes I have done quite a bit of leg work on this issue and I feel it was necessary to accomplish the goal of educating myself on the topic. Am I an expert? by no means, but I do consider myself informed, and I certainly do not have to think the way you or anyone else does about Wind Farms and their supposed effects on the planet. Have there been any real experts about this topic in this forum anyhow? I don't know everyone's resume. All I know is that mine does not include environmentalist or ecologist or even wind expert. Does anyone else's in here? We all have opinions and they are our own. Let's just leave it at that.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by anne onimous1 »

The last time I checked you didn't have to have a piece of paper hanging on your wall to acquire common sense. If this council thinks it is wise to deal with a company that has shown that it has no regard for the maintainence of it's product then I think perhaps a common sense degree should be a requirement for a seat on council. This is not aimed at BL, just the seated council that matters in this regard.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Blain »

As a Snyder Township resident, I had no opportunity to participate in the "informal survey", which is disappointing, considering that the proposed windmill farm would be located in Snyder Township. This will effect township residents as much as the people of the borough, and it would have been nice if we could have taken part.

Although voter turnout was predicted to be high, and roughly 1/3 of registered voters in the borough voted in the primary, I think that many republicans stayed home, since there wasn't much choice on the republican ballot, and the republican presidential nominee is a foregone conclusion.

Are we really going to let the 600 people who voted in support of the windfarm decide this thing?
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Bill Latchford »

Only because I don't want to sift through this thread to find where we had talked about a maintenance issue. Can someone refresh my memory? Thanks :? I knew there was a blade manufacturing issue but where was the maintenance issue at one of Gamasa's Wind Farms?
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by anne onimous1 »

Faulty blades, taping issues, rotor noise..........things that were supposed to be addressed months ago and Gamesa and Babcock & Brown can't decide who should fix these problems....Passing the buck.........as far as I'm concerned these are maintainance issues.......I suggest you may want to do some sifting to refresh your memory.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

My2Cents isn't worth anything tonight.... I'm lost for words. You all are saying everything I want to say, plus more. I know in my heart, without a doubt, we are so right in what we think about these wind mills. I am disappointed with the results, but, thank goodness there are GREAT folks like you getting us through this in a positive way. Because of folks like you, I, for one, will not just give up and/or give in. To ALL of you, Thank You !!
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Ice Man »

Blain wrote:As a Snyder Township resident, I had no opportunity to participate in the "informal survey", which is disappointing, considering that the proposed windmill farm would be located in Snyder Township. This will effect township residents as much as the people of the borough, and it would have been nice if we could have taken part.

Are we really going to let the 600 people who voted in support of the windfarm decide this thing?
Want to prevent industrial wind turbines from being built on Ice Mt? Ask the Snyder Twp Board of Supervisors to prohibit industrial wind turbines in Blair County Natural Heritage Areas. Logan, Frankstown, Tyrone, and Antis Townships have done that.

Want to prevent industrial wind turbines from being built near your home or camp? Ask the Snyder Twp Board of Supervisors to incorporate a 2,500 foot setback to homes and camps. Logan, Frankstown, Tyrone, and Antis Townships have done that.

Want to prevent industrial wind turbines from being built too close to your property? Ask the Snyder Twp Board of Supervisors to incorporate a 1,000 foot setback to property lines. Logan, Frankstown, Tyrone, and Antis Townships have done that.

The Snyder Township Board of Supervisors has the authority to prevent wind turbines from being built on Ice Mountain, regardless of what Tyrone Borough Council wants. Regulatory authority regarding land use in Snyder Twp rests with the Snyder Twp Board of Supervisors, not Tyrone Borough Council.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Something to say »

Ice Man....very well said.

As far as the comment made by My2Cents regarding that some people were still clueless regarding the windmills....I don't see where that was an unfair statement. SOME PEOPLE ARE STILL CLUELESS TO THE PROBLEMS THAT COME WITH putting a WINDFARM ON ICE MOUNTAIN.

Every time my 85 yr old mother is asked if she has a living will she responds ... "yes" ........the fact is....she does NOT have a LIVING WILL.... she has a last will and testament written. I explain this to her over and over again, and yet she still confuses the two.

I'd like to see interviews done at the high rise and downtown on Pennsylvania Ave....asking those folks if they know why some people are opposing this plan.

And like it or not Mr Latchford, demographics have played a role in the vote.

Also.... I agree that the manner in which the vote was taken was ludicrous. And I also knew you, Bill, would think, that if anyone questioned that manner that they would be called EXTREME.

The council...........as I have said repeatedly........wanted this farm from the get go...$$$. The petition resulted in an outcome they weren't ready for....so...they put it to the popular vote knowing full well the outcome. ( demographics ) Most council members have already stated their desire for the wind farm BEFORE the election by saying in interviews .. "I need to see a good reason why they aren't a good idea...etc...etc...etc...," Setting council members at the table... especially Councilwomen Stoner and Werner, definitely was a smart move. Politics at its finest.... BRAVO!
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by sandstone »

anne onimous1 wrote:Faulty blades, taping issues, rotor noise..........things that were supposed to be addressed months ago and Gamesa and Babcock & Brown can't decide who should fix these problems....Passing the buck.........as far as I'm concerned these are maintainance issues.......I suggest you may want to do some sifting to refresh your memory.
5 months ago Gamesa Atlantic Director of Development Ellen Lutz told the audience at the Tyrone Senior Center that the noise problem would be analyzed by Gamesa engineers the next day and the problem corrected within 48 hours. The problem is as bad as ever. Director Lutz has left Gamesa. Gamesa disavows responsibility for the turbines at the Allegheny Ridge Wind Farm, claiming that it is Babcock and Brown's responsibility. Babcock and Brown claims that it is Gamesa's responsibility. Residents are now suing the township, Gamesa, and Babcock and Brown.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by sandstone »

Something to say wrote:Ice Man....very well said.

As far as the comment made by My2Cents regarding that some people were still clueless regarding the windmills....I don't see where that was an unfair statement. SOME PEOPLE ARE STILL CLUELESS TO THE PROBLEMS THAT COME WITH putting a WINDFARM ON ICE MOUNTAIN.

Every time my 85 yr old mother is asked if she has a living will she responds ... "yes" ........the fact is....she does NOT have a LIVING WILL.... she has a last will and testament written. I explain this to her over and over again, and yet she still confuses the two.

I'd like to see interviews done at the high rise and downtown on Pennsylvania Ave....asking those folks if they know why some people are opposing this plan.

And like it or not Mr Latchford, demographics have played a role in the vote.

Also.... I agree that the manner in which the vote was taken was ludicrous. And I also knew you, Bill, would think, that if anyone questioned that manner that they would be called EXTREME.

The council...........as I have said repeatedly........wanted this farm from the get go...$$$. The petition resulted in an outcome they weren't ready for....so...they put it to the popular vote knowing full well the outcome. ( demographics ) Most council members have already stated their desire for the wind farm BEFORE the election by saying in interviews .. "I need to see a good reason why they aren't a good idea...etc...etc...etc...," Setting council members at the table... especially Councilwomen Stoner and Werner, definitely was a smart move. Politics at its finest.... BRAVO!
The way several of the council members jumped at the opportunity to announce their YES votes based on this poll is very unseemly. None of them did so based on the 1,400-signature petition, possibly because they didn't like the fact that SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN garnered so many signatures, more signatures than the entire number of people participating in the poll in the borough, and, interestingly, ~600 signatures from borough residents, even though the poll indicated that about 500 borough voters opposed the windplant and about 600 borough voters approved of the windplant.
Last edited by sandstone on Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by sandstone »

Ice Man wrote:
Blain wrote:As a Snyder Township resident, I had no opportunity to participate in the "informal survey", which is disappointing, considering that the proposed windmill farm would be located in Snyder Township. This will effect township residents as much as the people of the borough, and it would have been nice if we could have taken part.

Are we really going to let the 600 people who voted in support of the windfarm decide this thing?
Want to prevent industrial wind turbines from being built on Ice Mt? Ask the Snyder Twp Board of Supervisors to prohibit industrial wind turbines in Blair County Natural Heritage Areas. Logan, Frankstown, Tyrone, and Antis Townships have done that.

Want to prevent industrial wind turbines from being built near your home or camp? Ask the Snyder Twp Board of Supervisors to incorporate a 2,500 foot setback to homes and camps. Logan, Frankstown, Tyrone, and Antis Townships have done that.

Want to prevent industrial wind turbines from being built too close to your property? Ask the Snyder Twp Board of Supervisors to incorporate a 1,000 foot setback to property lines. Logan, Frankstown, Tyrone, and Antis Townships have done that.

The Snyder Township Board of Supervisors has the authority to prevent wind turbines from being built on Ice Mountain, regardless of what Tyrone Borough Council wants. Regulatory authority regarding land use in Snyder Twp rests with the Snyder Twp Board of Supervisors, not Tyrone Borough Council.
I strongly urge Snyder Township residents to attend the Snyder Township Board of Supervisors meetings and demand the protections that the Ice Man lists above, protections that neighboring townships have already enacted. Also remember that you don't have to be a Snyder Township resident to have a voice at their Board of Supervisors meetings.

The township building is on Old Route 220 in Vail. Give the Township a call at 684-1048 to find out when the next Board of Supervisors meeting will occur (their website is very out of date).
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

Ice Man wrote:AEI Special Report: Wind energy noise impacts

March 14, 2008 by Acoustic Ecology Institute

Summary:
This document authored by Acoustic Ecology Institute provides a comprehensive overview of noise issues pertaining to utility-scale wind energy development. This AEI Special Report will be continually updated, incorporating new research, more recent reports, and suggestions/comments from readers. Planned topics to be added over time include: effects of noise on wildlife and habitat, h*r* wind energy, and the health effects of chronic noise exposure.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

INTRODUCTION

Wind energy has long been a favorite of many environmental advocates. No carbon emissions, utilizing a free resource without depleting it in the least, even the potential for distributed generation rather than distant centralized power plants: for many of us, wind was the cleanest of green power sources in our dreams of the energy future.

In recent years, as wind turbines have grown from the small backyard kits that the truly committed built in the 70's, the reality has made those dreams become less certain. Modern wind turbines are massive structures, hundreds of feet tall, and often constructed in large wind farms that in effect industrialize rural landscapes, from the rolling grassy hills of California, to the vast rangeland of Texas, to ancient ridgelines in the Appalachians, to the commons in rural England. While the trade-offs may be worth it in some areas, the downsides have become more apparent. Resistance to wind farms is often belittled as NIMBY-ism (Not In My Backyard); but at the same time, proponents often slip into oversimplifeid WARYDU rhetoric (We Are Right; You Don't Understand). If we are to forge a reliable energy future that is respectful of both the environment and the rights of neighbors, we'll need to move past knee-jerk reactions on both sides, and develop best practices that can ensure that the landscape and local residents don't become long-term casualties of today's "Klondike Wind Rush."

This AEI Spotlight Report will focus specifically on the noise impacts of wind turbines and wind farms. However, it is worth mentioning some of the other concerns that rural residents have raised about the sudden appearance of industrial wind farms in their communities. Besides the visual blight, which many residents are, in the end, willing to accept as a tradeoff for producing clean energy, the most common argument against wind energy is that wind farms are notoriously inefficient, rarely achieving even half their rated capacity, due to fluctuating winds. A more important long-term issue, still flying mostly under the radar, is that lease agreements between land owners and power companies can be full of holes, raising the very real specter of ridge lines and rangelands becoming, over time, abandoned junkyards of massive metal hulks, rusting and disintegrating for decades.

It is entirely possible that ongoing technical innovation, combined with closer legal scrutiny, can overcome these issues. Similarly, noise impacts are not necessarily deal-killers for wind energy, as long as developers are honest about what is likely to be heard and continue to work diligently to investigate the aspects of wind turbine noise that are still not fully understood. Continually improving turbine design will likely mean that tomorrow's turbines are not as noisy as today's. Local residents should be sure that their fears are not based on others' experiences with older turbines, and wind energy advocates must be diligent in not glossing over potential noise impacts. With continual incorporation of best technology and best practices in siting, wind energy need not be stymied by noise issues. However, with noise impacts gaining more public credence, it is clear that the current boom in wind farm development could well backfire, for both the industry and a clean energy future, if the current generation turbines are sited too close to residences. The Altamont Wind Farm in California, shortsightedly built on a major raptor flyway in the early years of industrial wind development, has rippled through the years as a poster child for the bird-killing power of wind turbines, despite widespread understanding that it was an exceedingly bad siting decision. Similarly, many noise complaints today seem to be coming from people whose homes are on the near edge of fairly loose siting guidelines (within 500 meters in many cases, and often much less). If the thousands of windfarms likely to be built in the coming decade are placed too close to homes, the industry will be faced with an echoing chorus of complaints and resistance for years to come, even if it manages to invent much quieter machines. Better to be conservative, accepting the fact that even occasional atmospheric effects should be factored in to siting decisions today, so as to build a reservoir of good will, rather than a rising tide of complaints.

A key point is made in a study completed in 2007 by the National Research Council, the research arm of the National Academy of Sciences, which found conflicts are widespread because of a fundamental reality of wind power. The environmental costs -- visual impacts, noise, landscape and wildlife disturbances -- are primarily felt by those near the wind farm. The benefits, however (reduced global warming emissions and other air pollution, less dependence on foreign oil and less mining and drilling) are felt more on the regional or national scale. "Benefits and (costs) don't necessarily affect the same people," said David Policansky, who directed the study. "If you talk to a national representative of an environmental organization, it's quite likely that person will be in favor. Whereas, when you talk to a local representative, it is more likely that person will be opposed to some local project."

This AEI Special Report is designed to provide a layman's introduction to the types of noise produced by wind turbines. It is not our intention to over-emphasize noise complaints, but rather to provide information that can foster informed conversation about any specific wind farm proposal. A recent UK government survey suggests that only about 20% of wind farms tend to generate noise complaints; the question is, what are the factors in those wind farms that may be problematic, and how can we avoid replicating these situations elsewhere? [more ...]

Editor's note: The full document can be accessed by clicking on the link below.

Web link: http://www.acousticecology.org/srwind.html
Ice Man, I just had a chance to look over this site you submitted yesterday... wow, great information.
When you get a chance folks, please check it out, and go thru, the "web link" at the bottom of his post, it is fantactic !!
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