Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

[Ice Man]

How long are Council terms?

If Borough Council waits 2 years before signing a lease with a Windmill Company then some of the seats may be up for re-election.

I think that'd be a prime opportunity for some "Save Ice Mountain" candidates to throw their hat in the ring.

I nominate Dave Bonta for Borough Council and I've got the perfect campaign slogan.

Bontasaurus Won't Ignore Us!

Dave lives in Snyder Township. Don't you have to be a Tyrone Borough resident to serve on Tyrone Borough Council?

[Bill Latchford]

People are allowed to change their minds though as it seems Mayor Kilmartin has.

Since it has always seemed clear that Mayor Kilmartin was opposed to the Ice Mt windplant, you should explain what you mean by the statement above.

Because I came on here and you got to see me change my mind back and forth, you can't possibly believe that others weren't doing the same in a non public way. I wanted to hear information from all sides, I felt I had to since I really knew nothing about Wind Turbines when this all started. Here are times when people have to struggle with un popular topics/votes. This is one of them. You have the luxury to so clearly have your mind set on something and don't have to worry about how your actions/vote affects other "PEOPLE". We have a community of many low to moderate income and fixed income people that we have to look at a bigger picture than just Ecology. Grant it I have seen the videos of the slaughtered birds and such...How are we not to think, just a bit that this might not be a bit of propaganda that shows the absolute worst case scenario. Look what PETA does, they show the absolute most horrifying actions that people do to animals, and it appears to work for them. I mean it is a proven fact that cell phone towers kill more birds than Wind Turbines, I believe that is because of the sheer number of cell phone towers, but none the less, we on Council have to think a bit further outside the box. I will say that I think the turbines would benefit our community in a financial way. That of course is nothing "Save Ice Mountain" wants to hear, but to say that someone does not care at all about the wild life and such is just taking it a bit far. You have the luxury of being so focused. I don't hear anyone saying they are putting their cell phones in the trash and I don't recall any demonstrations when cell towers are going up. You have a cause and it is a good one, I personally have causes also that others may not totally agree with. We do what we need to do and in the end we hope to make a difference. I will not mind if the Turbines get voted down permanently or not. The mountain is fine the way it is and I think it would survive no matter what. I know that is just way too broad of an attitude for "Save ice Mountain” but that is my view.

[Bill Latchford]

How long are Council terms?

If Borough Council waits 2 years before signing a lease with a Windmill Company then some of the seats may be up for re-election.

I think that'd be a prime opportunity for some "Save Ice Mountain" candidates to throw their hat in the ring.

I nominate Dave Bonta for Borough Council and I've got the perfect campaign slogan.

Bontasaurus Won't Ignore Us!

Dave lives in Snyder Township. Don't you have to be a Tyrone Borough resident to serve on Tyrone Borough Council?

Yes only Borough residents can run for Borough offices.

[zapatista]

This may make "Wind Bill" rethink his position yet again.

While I like the nickname "Wind Bill" it doesn't have enough zip.

How bout "Willie Waffles" ?

[yertle]

This may make "Wind Bill" rethink his position yet again.

While I like the nickname "Wind Bill" it doesn't have enough zip.

How bout "Willie Waffles" ?

Nah. Not official enough.

"William the Abstainer" ?

[Ice Man]

People are allowed to change their minds though as it seems Mayor Kilmartin has.

Since it has always seemed clear that Mayor Kilmartin was opposed to the Ice Mt windplant, you should explain what you mean by the statement above.

Because I came on here and you got to see me change my mind back and forth, you can't possibly believe that others weren't doing the same in a non public way. I wanted to hear information from all sides, I felt I had to since I really knew nothing about Wind Turbines when this all started. Here are times when people have to struggle with un popular topics/votes. This is one of them. You have the luxury to so clearly have your mind set on something and don't have to worry about how your actions/vote affects other "PEOPLE". We have a community of many low to moderate income and fixed income people that we have to look at a bigger picture than just Ecology. Grant it I have seen the videos of the slaughtered birds and such...How are we not to think, just a bit that this might not be a bit of propaganda that shows the absolute worst case scenario. Look what PETA does, they show the absolute most horrifying actions that people do to animals, and it appears to work for them. I mean it is a proven fact that cell phone towers kill more birds than Wind Turbines, I believe that is because of the sheer number of cell phone towers, but none the less, we on Council have to think a bit further outside the box. I will say that I think the turbines would benefit our community in a financial way. That of course is nothing "Save Ice Mountain" wants to hear, but to say that someone does not care at all about the wild life and such is just taking it a bit far. You have the luxury of being so focused. I don't hear anyone saying they are putting their cell phones in the trash and I don't recall any demonstrations when cell towers are going up. You have a cause and it is a good one, I personally have causes also that others may not totally agree with. We do what we need to do and in the end we hope to make a difference. I will not mind if the Turbines get voted down permanently or not. The mountain is fine the way it is and I think it would survive no matter what. I know that is just way too broad of an attitude for "Save ice Mountain” but that is my view.

You didn't answer my question. Since it has always seemed clear that Mayor Kilmartin was opposed to the Ice Mt windplant, you should explain what you mean by saying that Mayor Kilmartin has changed his mind. Or perhaps, you, like the media, want to put the Mayor in an unfavorable light?

BTW, I don't have a cell phone because I oppose the clearing of mountaintops to build roads to access cell phone towers. Obviously, that doesn't stop those towers from being built.

[sandstone]

People are allowed to change their minds though as it seems Mayor Kilmartin has.

Since it has always seemed clear that Mayor Kilmartin was opposed to the Ice Mt windplant, you should explain what you mean by the statement above.

I mean it is a proven fact that cell phone towers kill more birds than Wind Turbines, I believe that is because of the sheer number of cell phone towers, but none the less, we on Council have to think a bit further outside the box. I don't hear anyone saying they are putting their cell phones in the trash and I don't recall any demonstrations when cell towers are going up.

Perhaps you "don't recall demonstrations when cell towers are going up" because you are not attuned to conservation issues. In the summer of 2007, a new 400' cell tower was proposed for Brush Mountain in Logan Township. This was opposed by Juniata Valley Audubon and was the focus of a letter and postcard campaign aimed at the Logan Township Zoning Hearing Board. Juniata Valley Audubon representatives testified in opposition to the tower at the Logan Township Zoning Hearing Board's public hearing later that year. This was reported in the Altoona Mirror. That's just here on the local level. Also see http://www.abcbirds.org/conservationiss ... owers.html

Regarding your "sheer number of cell phone towers" remark, you, as a member of a group studying wind energy, should know that the number of cell phone towers in Pennsylvania will soon be exceeded by the number of industrial wind turbines. There are about 400 industrial wind turbines in various stages of planning, construction, and completion on just the Allegheny Front in Pennsylvania between I-80 and the Maryland border! Pennsylvania has 30+ coal plants and 5 nuclear plants. You need 6,000 industrial-scale wind turbines to equal the amount of electricity produced at just ONE nuclear plant! There's no way that you could convince me that 6,000 industrial-scale wind turbines covering 1,000+ miles of ridgetop are less ecologically harmful than ONE nuclear plant. The nuclear plant at Berwick on the North Branch of the Susquehanna River is undergoing expansion, with the addition of a new reactor. That new reactor will provide as much electricity as 2,000 industrial-scale wind turbines.

[My2Cents]

People are allowed to change their minds though as it seems Mayor Kilmartin has.

Since it has always seemed clear that Mayor Kilmartin was opposed to the Ice Mt windplant, you should explain what you mean by the statement above.

Thank you for pointing that out Ice Man for our Mayor did not deserve that extra pun. :flag:
Bills statement was unwarranted and just another one of his quick throw-ins, another one of his, Oh, I didn't mean it that way, remarks.

[My2Cents]

I will not mind if the Turbines get voted down permanently or not. The mountain is fine the way it is and I think it would survive no matter what. I know that is just way too broad of an attitude for "Save ice Mountain” but that is my view.

Does anyone have a shovel ??

[Bill Latchford]

People are allowed to change their minds though as it seems Mayor Kilmartin has.

Since it has always seemed clear that Mayor Kilmartin was opposed to the Ice Mt windplant, you should explain what you mean by the statement above.

I mean it is a proven fact that cell phone towers kill more birds than Wind Turbines, I believe that is because of the sheer number of cell phone towers, but none the less, we on Council have to think a bit further outside the box. I don't hear anyone saying they are putting their cell phones in the trash and I don't recall any demonstrations when cell towers are going up.

Perhaps you "don't recall demonstrations when cell towers are going up" because you are not attuned to conservation issues. In the summer of 2007, a new 400' cell tower was proposed for Brush Mountain in Logan Township. This was opposed by Juniata Valley Audubon and was the focus of a letter and postcard campaign aimed at the Logan Township Zoning Hearing Board. Juniata Valley Audubon representatives testified in opposition to the tower at the Logan Township Zoning Hearing Board's public hearing later that year. This was reported in the Altoona Mirror. That's just here on the local level. Also see http://www.abcbirds.org/conservationiss ... owers.html

Regarding your "sheer number of cell phone towers" remark, you, as a member of a group studying wind energy, should know that the number of cell phone towers in Pennsylvania will soon be exceeded by the number of industrial wind turbines. There are about 400 industrial wind turbines in various stages of planning, construction, and completion on just the Allegheny Front in Pennsylvania between I-80 and the Maryland border! Pennsylvania has 30+ coal plants and 5 nuclear plants. You need 6,000 industrial-scale wind turbines to equal the amount of electricity produced at just ONE nuclear plant! There's no way that you could convince me that 6,000 industrial-scale wind turbines covering 1,000+ miles of ridgetop are less ecologically harmful than ONE nuclear plant. The nuclear plant at Berwick on the North Branch of the Susquehanna River is undergoing expansion, with the addition of a new reactor. That new reactor will provide as much electricity as 2,000 industrial-scale wind turbines.

Sandstone...Thank you for pointing that out...You would be correct I would not have been attuned to that issue. This wind study group over here is not as active as I thought it would have been. So I can not rely on it for pretty much anything yet. Other than that is where I found out that people from where I work had dealings with Gamesa.
Look I don't want to see Turbines on every ridge top in Pa. I have a beautiful ride from Tyrone to State College everyday and understand the beauty of the land. I think about the Turbine issue everyday I take the ride. If you go by what the Blair County Natural Heritage report says, then you are absolutely right it is very rare to have this much space in a contagious block.
We are talking about a community that has no other way to create revenue streams, and maybe that is why the Borough is being targeted by Gamesa for a land resource that just barely meets the requirements to make the Turbines work.
The Mayor Kilmartin thing is not a crack at the Mayor, he will no that...I am saying that it may seem clear to you and whoever else wants to see the clarity at the Mayor's thoughts. But I to, like many others it would appear, thought that night that he voted no to the Turbines because the deal was not lucrative enough. Can he change his mind anytime he feels, of course as we all have that right. Maybe the words just did not come out right. To me though and to some on this board, if you go back and read it, thought the same thing that Council person Kosoglow and Mayor Kilmartin were holding out for a better deal for the Borough. To me that sounds like more money...

[Bill Latchford]

People are allowed to change their minds though as it seems Mayor Kilmartin has.

Since it has always seemed clear that Mayor Kilmartin was opposed to the Ice Mt windplant, you should explain what you mean by the statement above.

Because I came on here and you got to see me change my mind back and forth, you can't possibly believe that others weren't doing the same in a non public way. I wanted to hear information from all sides, I felt I had to since I really knew nothing about Wind Turbines when this all started. Here are times when people have to struggle with un popular topics/votes. This is one of them. You have the luxury to so clearly have your mind set on something and don't have to worry about how your actions/vote affects other "PEOPLE". We have a community of many low to moderate income and fixed income people that we have to look at a bigger picture than just Ecology. Grant it I have seen the videos of the slaughtered birds and such...How are we not to think, just a bit that this might not be a bit of propaganda that shows the absolute worst case scenario. Look what PETA does, they show the absolute most horrifying actions that people do to animals, and it appears to work for them. I mean it is a proven fact that cell phone towers kill more birds than Wind Turbines, I believe that is because of the sheer number of cell phone towers, but none the less, we on Council have to think a bit further outside the box. I will say that I think the turbines would benefit our community in a financial way. That of course is nothing "Save Ice Mountain" wants to hear, but to say that someone does not care at all about the wild life and such is just taking it a bit far. You have the luxury of being so focused. I don't hear anyone saying they are putting their cell phones in the trash and I don't recall any demonstrations when cell towers are going up. You have a cause and it is a good one, I personally have causes also that others may not totally agree with. We do what we need to do and in the end we hope to make a difference. I will not mind if the Turbines get voted down permanently or not. The mountain is fine the way it is and I think it would survive no matter what. I know that is just way too broad of an attitude for "Save ice Mountain” but that is my view.

You didn't answer my question. Since it has always seemed clear that Mayor Kilmartin was opposed to the Ice Mt windplant, you should explain what you mean by saying that Mayor Kilmartin has changed his mind. Or perhaps, you, like the media, want to put the Mayor in an unfavorable light?

BTW, I don't have a cell phone because I oppose the clearing of mountaintops to build roads to access cell phone towers. Obviously, that doesn't stop those towers from being built.

Clear to you and whoever else wants to find the clarity. I did not see the same clarity throughout the past couple of years. I will not though let you try and twist my words to make it look like I would have anything bad to say about Jim. He is a friend and I respect him as a person and as our Mayor. He does a great deal of good in our community in both aspects. We don't have to see the same clarity when it comes to an issue "Ice Man"

[yertle]

Did anyone else hear that the Tyrone Community Players are planning a spring production called:
"Willie Waffles and the Windmill Factory." ?

I wonder who they'll cast as the Oompa-Loompas? Borough Council?

[Fightin' Irish]

The local media are guilty of a great injustice to Tyrone Mayor Jim Kilmartin. They reported that he voted "no" only because he wanted more money from Gamesa.

Here's a note that I received this morning:

"I should have stated this at the meeting as I did to the newspaper. 95% of wind farms are west of the Mississippi River. I do believe wind is a good option for our country. I do not believe it is a good option for our mountain. If wind is only 30% efficient at this time in our area, it truly is not a viable business without being subsidized. As a business owner, I would not be in business very long with a 30% efficiency unless the income was tremendous.
I do think about the ecological perspective and do not like the idea of these being on our watershed and I am not pleased with their commanding presence over our community.

The money is an issue but it isn't the biggest issue for me at all. I will restate that I am for wind energy as long as it is efficient and in the right location. Feel free to pass this on to your JVAS group."

Sincerely,

Jim Kilmartin
Mayor of Tyrone
(814)684-1330 - office
http://www.tyroneboropa.com
Tyrone-A Place of Pleasant Living

Thank you, Mr. Mayor!!! :flag: :bluebounce:

Mayor Kilmartin, with admirable economy of language, has clearly and succinctly expressed his views regarding the windplant proposal. He has my respect and admiration.

Mayor Jim Kilmartin;

Thank you, thank you, thank you!! :thumb:

Fightin' Irish

[Bill Latchford]

People are allowed to change their minds though as it seems Mayor Kilmartin has.

Since it has always seemed clear that Mayor Kilmartin was opposed to the Ice Mt windplant, you should explain what you mean by the statement above.

Thank you for pointing that out Ice Man for our Mayor did not deserve that extra pun. :flag:
Bills statement was unwarranted and just another one of his quick throw-ins, another one of his, Oh, I didn't mean it that way, remarks.

Where is the pun?

[salaman]

The local media are guilty of a great injustice to Tyrone Mayor Jim Kilmartin. They reported that he voted "no" only because he wanted more money from Gamesa.

Here's a note that I received this morning:

"I should have stated this at the meeting as I did to the newspaper. 95% of wind farms are west of the Mississippi River. I do believe wind is a good option for our country. I do not believe it is a good option for our mountain. If wind is only 30% efficient at this time in our area, it truly is not a viable business without being subsidized. As a business owner, I would not be in business very long with a 30% efficiency unless the income was tremendous.
I do think about the ecological perspective and do not like the idea of these being on our watershed and I am not pleased with their commanding presence over our community.

The money is an issue but it isn't the biggest issue for me at all. I will restate that I am for wind energy as long as it is efficient and in the right location. Feel free to pass this on to your JVAS group."

Sincerely,

Jim Kilmartin
Mayor of Tyrone
(814)684-1330 - office
http://www.tyroneboropa.com
Tyrone-A Place of Pleasant Living

Thank you, Mr. Mayor!!! :flag: :bluebounce:

Kudos to Mayor Kilmartin....just wish that the rest of Council had his vision!!