Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

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Let them cruise

Re: windmills on ice mountain

Post by Let them cruise »

[quote="SMOKEJUMPER"] as for the birds and the bats cats kill more birds than those wind mills do.

I have never seen a cat kill a Golden Eagle a Bald Eagle or a Canadian Goose but industrial wind turbines do.
MediumGreek

Post by MediumGreek »

I once saw a Cat eat three hoagies.
That cat's name was Eddie.
Last edited by MediumGreek on Mon May 14, 2007 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zapatista
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Post by zapatista »

And this is the only thing we should believe?
Cat's eat birds at every turn? No Euro groups support them?
They are 100% anti-cat?
As with everything, there are those who hunt and those who fall prey.
What about the effects of bird killing cats on the environment?
There are pro's and con's to every species.
Last edited by zapatista on Mon May 14, 2007 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Doorman »

Well smokejumper you pretty much said everything that I planned to say. Its always we need to do something, but it always comes down to not in my back yard. As for a few birds, geese and whatever, oh well.
George M.

missing the point

Post by George M. »

Wind turbines generate very little electricity during the period when it is needed the most - hot afternoons in the summertime. Adding thousands of huge wind turbines to our grid region will not prevent the construction of new power plants, which will be needed to meet the increasing demand for electricity during the summer.

If PA allows 10,000 MegaWatts (MW) of gigantic wind turbines to be installed along its mountaintops - which likely will cover roughly 750 miles of ridges at a spacing of seven 2.0-MW turbines per mile - they effectively would have the same ANNUAL output of electricity as a 3,150 to 3,500 MW nuclear or coal-fueled powerplant. However, during the 3 summer months, the same 5,000 huge wind turbines (10,000 MW) would be matched in electricity output by one 1,600 to 1,800 MW coal or nuclear power plant.

Each wind turbine that Gamesa installs will cost them up-front at least $3-million. However, they recover $2-million for each wind turbine installed from the huge federal tax credits and other tax shelters which have been created to support the wind industry. The federal treasury will lose $2-million per wind turbine! If Gamesa and other wind energy developers install 5,000 wind turbines in PA, they and their investors will escape payment of $10-billion in otherwise-owed federal income taxes.

ENRON was a leader in the wind industry before it went bankrupt (now GE owns ENRON's wind energy division). Many of the first wind turbines built in PA were from ENRON. Taxpayers and ratepayers will not see the benefits of the "green" from wind turbines, but Gamesa and other ENRON-esque companies will see lots of "greenbacks".

Imagine if that $10-billion from the federal treasury were instead earmarked for incentives to use less electricity or to support technologies which supply power when we needed it most - such as solar...far more environmental and economic benefits would accrue to our region.
smalltownboy

Post by smalltownboy »

MediumGreek wrote:I once saw a Cat eat three hoagies.
That cat's name was Eddie.
Speaking of hoagies....

Has anyone considered the use of an industrial size methane digestor to help meet the regions energy needs?

Biogas Information Link

Heck we could probably light up the entire county with the thousands of gallons of manure that Harpster's Dairy in Warriors Mark spreads along Rt 45 every month.

Here's an excerpt from a recent article in the San Francisco Chronicle:
Powered by Pooches
Rather than let pet dung go to waste, experts explore its energy potential

San Francisco Chronicle - Tuesday, February 21, 2006
Written by Carolyn Jones, Chronicle Staff Writer

In the future, we might be heating our houses with dog poop.

As San Francisco, Oakland and other Bay Area cities strive to reach self-imposed goals of keeping every bit of trash out of landfills by 2020, even animal waste is being scrutinized to see how it might be reused or recycled.

And so San Francisco has become the first city in the country to consider turning Fido's droppings into methane, which can heat homes, cook meals and generate electricity.

"Poop power? Yes, it's possible to produce electricity, natural gas and even fuel from Rover's poop and other waste material," said Robert Reed, a spokesman for Norcal Waste, which carts away the waste San Francisco, San Jose and a dozen other Northern California cities generate. "There are a lot of bugs to work out, steps to figure out, costs to be considered, but we are beginning to talk to the city about it and look into this area more actively."
shakespeare

Post by shakespeare »

smalltownboy wrote: Has anyone considered the use of an industrial size methane digestor to help meet the regions energy needs?
Tis astounding, turning hot air into electricity!?!?

...perhaps we should ask Harlow to move back?
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Post by Harlow »

Sorry,

I am busy powering the Hampton Roads area.
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Re: windmills on ice mountain

Post by sandstone »

banksy wrote:
sandstone wrote:
SMOKEJUMPER wrote:at what point do we say enough is enough. with the price of gas increasing,natural gas going up when do we say we had it with corporate greed. all we do is complain about the prices but are willing to do nothing about it. to me if we are not willing to some consesions we will be at the mercy of the rich oilmen. :?
Industrial windplants will have no effect on our consumption of oil. Windfarms produce only electricity. Less than 2% of the oil used in the US is used to produce electricity. The US actually exports more oil than it uses to produce electricity. Industrial windfarms will have no effect on our consumption of oil, foreign or domestic.
No effect at all? Are there any coal fueled elecricity providers in PA? How do those providers get the coal from the mine to the generation plant where it is burned to produce electricity.
The amount of oil consumed in the transportation of coal from mines to coalplants is a miniscule fraction of the total oil consumed in the USA. Using your logic, we'd also need to consider the oil used to transport the industrial wind turbine nacelles and gears from Spain, the masts from Bucks County, and the blades from Ebensburg.

The huge ecological costs of converting Ice Mountain into an industrial windplant far exceed the puny benefits that this windplant would provide. The ecological costs consist of direct mortality to birds and bats (in forested settings, each industrial wind turbine kills 50-100 bats annually), forest fragmentation (Ice Mountain is designated as a County Natural Heritage Area of Exceptional Significance in the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory done under the direction of the Blair County Planning Commission), and the inducement of avoidance behavior in wildlife (Ice Mountain is part of the Allegheny Front, a major migratory corridor that was designated as an Important Bird Area by the Pennsylvania Biological Survey, a scientific body that provides impartial advice to the Commonwealth's conservation agencies).

With 30 industrial-scale wind turbines, the electricity produced by this windplant will be minscule: each turbine is rated at 2 MegaWatts, but land-based windplants east of the Mississippi River have been unable to exceed 30% of their rated capacity, so the total power output of this windplant consisting of 30 turbines spread over 5-8 miles will be a mere 20 MegaWatts. Compare this to the 2,300 MegaWatt Limerick nuclear power plant that occupies 200 acres just outside Philadelphia. Pennsylvania has 5 nuclear power plants that are able to provide a combined 10,000 MegaWatts of power.
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windmills on ice mountain

Post by SMOKEJUMPER »

THE WINDMILLS MIGHT NOT BE THE BEST THING NOW. I JUST READ IN THE ALTOONA MIRROR THAT PENELECT PLANS TO BUY THE GAMASA PROJECT ON ICE MOUTAIN. :shock: IF SOME OF YOU ARE UNAWARE IN 2008 THE P.U.C. WILL BE LIFTING ITS CONTROL OVER THEM. THAT MEANS THAT THE ELECTRIC CAN INCREASE ITS RATES TO ANYTHING THAY WANT. AND LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE THEY GO UP AND PEOPLES WAGES STAY THE SAME. :roll:
SLOW DOWN AND ENJOY LIFE ,ITS TO SHORT AS IT IS.
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Post by banksy »

Perhaps the answer then is to forgo Windmils on Ice Mountain and in place, build a Nuclear Plant at the abandoned Big Yank site. Hopefully it won't affect the food establishments in that area.
Break_Like_The_Wind

Post by Break_Like_The_Wind »

banksy wrote:...build a Nuclear Plant at the abandoned Big Yank site. Hopefully it won't affect the food establishments in that area.
The establishment of a Nuclear facility in East Tyrone could only boost sales at our local eateries.

Who's hoagies do you think the Nuke workers would favor, Macs or East End?
MediumGreek

Post by MediumGreek »

Put a whole new twist on the medium green hoagie, eh, BLTW?
Break_Like_The_Wind

Post by Break_Like_The_Wind »

MediumGreek wrote:Put a whole new twist on the medium green hoagie, eh,
Without a doubt.

With that much exposure to industrial grade plutonium, those hoages would look like glow sticks.
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industrial windplants

Post by sandstone »

Anyone who'd like to learn more about industrial windplants ought to check

http://pennsylvania.sierraclub.org/mosh ... Kotala.pdf

http://saveouralleghenyridges.com/

http://www.windaction.org/
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