Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

[My2Cents]

at what point do we say enough is enough. with the price of gas increasing,natural gas going up when do we say we had it with corporate greed. all we do is complain about the prices but are willing to do nothing about it. to me if we are not willing to some consesions we will be at the mercy of the rich oilmen.

Industrial windplants will have no effect on our consumption of oil. Windfarms produce only electricity. Less than 2% of the oil used in the US is used to produce electricity. The US actually exports more oil than it uses to produce electricity. Industrial windfarms will have no effect on our consumption of oil, foreign or domestic.

No effect at all? Are there any coal fueled elecricity providers in PA? How do those providers get the coal from the mine to the generation plant where it is burned to produce electricity.

The amount of oil consumed in the transportation of coal from mines to coalplants is a miniscule fraction of the total oil consumed in the USA. Using your logic, we'd also need to consider the oil used to transport the industrial wind turbine nacelles and gears from Spain, the masts from Bucks County, and the blades from Ebensburg.

The huge ecological costs of converting Ice Mountain into an industrial windplant far exceed the puny benefits that this windplant would provide. The ecological costs consist of direct mortality to birds and bats (in forested settings, each industrial wind turbine kills 50-100 bats annually), forest fragmentation (Ice Mountain is designated as a County Natural Heritage Area of Exceptional Significance in the Blair County Natural Heritage Inventory done under the direction of the Blair County Planning Commission), and the inducement of avoidance behavior in wildlife (Ice Mountain is part of the Allegheny Front, a major migratory corridor that was designated as an Important Bird Area by the Pennsylvania Biological Survey, a scientific body that provides impartial advice to the Commonwealth's conservation agencies).

With 30 industrial-scale wind turbines, the electricity produced by this windplant will be minscule: each turbine is rated at 2 MegaWatts, but land-based windplants east of the Mississippi River have been unable to exceed 30% of their rated capacity, so the total power output of this windplant consisting of 30 turbines spread over 5-8 miles will be a mere 20 MegaWatts. Compare this to the 2,300 MegaWatt Limerick nuclear power plant that occupies 200 acres just outside Philadelphia. Pennsylvania has 5 nuclear power plants that are able to provide a combined 10,000 MegaWatts of power.

By the way... if these things do go up... which way are they going to be blowing the wind, WHEN, there is wind to blow ?? Away from, or towards Tyrone ???
Please re-read all of the previous post above this post. Please click on some of the sites within some of the posts. There is some very good information concerning the pros and cons of this situation. Most are not in favor of this. On down the road, if they put these things up, they are going to find out that this was a HUGE mistake !!! Solar power is going to be the thing of the future. California is already doing it without any problems. Also, the Pentagon is now, doing a new study concerning a satellite system that collects gigawatts worth of solar power and beams it back to earth... it's a fantastic new idea and it is working !!! They just have to iron out some kinks. With solar power you don't have to count on the "wind" and the sun doesn't have to be shining. You don't have to cut down trees from a mountainside or build gigantic roads. Once solar power is in place, it will cost us nothing for our power/energy.... sunshine is free... what more could we ask for ???
Do you realize in order to put up just one of these wind turbines.... ENORMOUS roads have to be built in order to get the main body of the windmill itself into the area that it is to sit..... then an ENORMOUS area has to be cleared away for each turbin to stand. The cost of this project is going to be outrageous... and it's going to be personified politics at it's utmost. If there were a national disaster (heaven forbid) at the right time, in the right place... would you want those windmills blowing that contaminated air your way ??? When all is said and done, in about 10 years, these things are going to be a thing of the past and we are going to be left with an eyesore!!! Yes, we need to do something... the world needs to do something. Sunshine is free... solar power is the future.

[SANTEEO]

not just throwing in a road and a fence around the perimeter

Suburbia: where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

[Bill Latchford]

Wind Turbines do not move the air. The wind moves them....Gamasa has done wind studies up on the mountian for going on around 8 months to a year I think... They certainly are not going to invest the millions of dollars it takes without knowing if there is enough wind to sustain a project of this magnitude.
Also Banksy.... After these things are up and running I am not sure what type of sustainable jobs there would be other than maintenance...But I will ask...It is a valid and important question. You would think they would hire someone local or at leaste think it is a good idea instead of paying someone to relocate here or travel here from far away.
Someone had mentioned the clearing and such for huge roads and that...If you have seen some of their installations they are cleaned up very nice and the "huge" roads are really now only like 16 feet or something like that. Some areas have used them as walking and bicycling trails and the like. The footprint of the installation of the wind turbine is not some huge area also.... It is replanted with greens and such all the way up to the base. Of course some trees are now gone but the installation is very eco friendly...Not disturbing streams or anything.
I appreciate everyone's input to the subject....

[SANTEEO]

Wind Turbines do not move the air. The wind moves them ....

A PBS mind in an MTV world.

[150thBucktailCo.I]

Senator John Eichelberger's thoughts on Wind Turbines:

http://senatoreichelberger.com/2007/10/ ... -personal/

[My2Cents]

Thank You Bucktail !!! Bill, in an earlier post you mentioned not hearing many "pro" comments on this subject... doesn't that tell you something right there ??? Most people do not fully understand these wind turbins and they are being quickly put up in different areas before the public becomes fully aware of their negative impact.
I do hope you read Senator Eichelbergers thought's on these turbins that Buckeye submitted above. I'm sure the folks from Gamasa are "giving nice presentations." I'm sure when you went to that site yesterday that everything was nicely laid out... That was all a sales pitch, Bill. I think this is going to be another one of those situations where Big Brother is going to take over and we the public will have no say so.... HUGE areas of our mountainside will be cleared of trees....plus, the fact that roads have to be built in order to haul these things to the site where they are to be placed. Solar Power is the thing of the future and it will benefit everybody in a most positive way. Ask the people in California. These wind mills will never serve their purpose and they will become obsolete in no time.... what a terrible shame.
One last thing... you mentioned, " wind turbins do not move the air....the wind moves them." I think that would depend on..... which side you are on.... I mean, which side of the wind turbin you are on.... I mean, which way the wind's blowin'.

[150thBucktailCo.I]

That's BUCK-TAIL, 2 cents. What you referred to me as the 2nd time is blasphemy. :stick: The 150th Bucktails is a Civil War unit. The Buckeyes are an over-rated college team that will hopefully meet their demise in a couple weeks in Beaver Stadium.

Now, back to the topic....

Personally, I think wind energy could help somewhat, but isn't the save all that Rendell and Gamesa are making it out to be.

I don't believe windmills on top of mountains will amount to much either, especially in this area. I think they'd be much better suited around the City of Erie, just off the lake, where the wind tends to blow consistently and constantly because of the relatively flat ground and there are no hills to slow or impede the wind's progress. Maybe even the area from Lancaster to Philly would work better, too.

[My2Cents]

Oop's, "Buck-Tail" :ahh: ... ROFLOL, I'll remember that, sorry. :hail: :flag:

[SANTEEO]

That's BUCK-TAIL, 2 cents. What you referred to me as the 2nd time is blasphemy.

I'm trying to imagine you with a personality.

[150thBucktailCo.I]

Don't hurt yourself while attempting that. I'm sure it'll be a challenge. :jester:

[Bill Latchford]

I have read Senator Eichelberger's blog on the subject and have an email into him in regards to possible windplant installation, just to see if he was aware of our plans. As I said I think everyone's input is valuable to this topic. Just becasue I may be in favor of alternet forms of energy does not mean I should be closed minded to all forms of alternative energies. I have read about windplants geothermal plants solar collection and of course Nuclear Energy. No one has come to the Borough about any of these other alternative energy sources.
Now when I talk about the Pros and Cons...I do mean that they seem to cancel each other out, other than the Cons seem to be a bit more hmmmmmm how can I put it....Harsh on their stance. They leave no room for compromise. It is No Mountian No Where...But as I said I listen and I also thank you all for some of the links...especially Senator Eichelberger's. That one is very important to me and I wait patiently for his responce to my email. Take Care all and I will try and keep you up to date.

[My2Cents]

WOW !!! Thank You Bill for at least considering and checking out the other alternatives that are out there... especially, solar energy... to me, that say's a lot... at least you show you are concerned !!! As I mentioned above, the Pentagon is working on and considering a satellite system that will beam solar energy back to earth... I'm guessing, but, I do believe solar energy is going to be the thing of the future. I saw a previous article in the Altoona Mirror... it was showing a map of the areas where these wind mills are to be installed... some have been installed already.... they are making their way right up through the center of PA... by the looks of it, the plan is already laid out.... we may have no choice but to accept them.... most people are not aware, or pay much attention to this, until after the fact. Yes, we need to do something but these things are not the answer. "Buck-Tail" is right about the Lake Erie scenerio.... however, bottom line... they are going to cost a lot of money, they will not supply enough energy, and they will become obsolete in no time. I don't mean to get carried away here, I'm just a regular Tyronie who loves Tyrone and is voicing an opinion only on here and I'm sure it is not even worth 2 Cents. Thanks for at least checking this stuff out and responding Bill. :flag:

[Bill Latchford]

This is to important of a topic to just go at it and say....Weeeeeeee lets make some money off this. I would rather educate myself as much as possible ask for input from the community and make as much of an educated dicision as possible. I can appreciate the enviromentalists who are concerned for our flying friends...But I am also concerned about the 30,000 + persons who die every year from the output emmissions of our fosil feul plants. It's a give and take scenario with any type of alternative we look at. I personally like the idea of Solar it works the same way as wind it is only supplying energy when it is available...The battery technology is not up to date yet so we can harness these energies and save them for a rainy day, so to speak. Both wind and solar pump energy into a present grid and cannot be stored effiviently yet. The other I have noticed was the GoeThermal and I even believe Penelec had something in front of their facility a few years ago demonstrating this alternative. I wonder what ever happened to that. In either case we all need to keep an opened mind to the future, and not neccesarily the near future. I want my daughter to have it better than I did and possibly her kids even better. As it's been said we all have to work together for a better tomorrow.

[My2Cents]

That is exactly the "kink" the Pentagon is working on now. They have the solar satellite part worked out already... it's the "storage" part they are trying to work out. They do not, however, perceive a problem in that area either. With solar power the sun does not have to be shining all the time. With the wind mills... the wind does have to blow.
Our little corner of the world is not going to solve the problem of the "thousands of people who die each year from the output of fossil fuels." It's going to take us, along with the world to do that, ASAP, for future generations.... and it's not going to happen overnight..... it is going to take many, many, years to fix what we have broken. Our little corner of this world should put in something that is going to be compatable with the future.... something that will be compatable with the solar satellite system. Yes, it will cost money... but, in the long run, it will be worth every cent. Solar panels do not tear away acres and acres of trees from our mountain sides... leaving and un-sitely mess. They are flat and can be put into some inconspicuous area around here and not be an eye sore or even noticed. For sure, it would open jobs for people in this area and it would be "born in the USA" not owned and/or run by a foreign country. :flag:

[Leep]

We have some outside of Livingston, Montana that work quite well.
They are intrusive and stand out for miles, but out here we have the room for them.
If the wind does not blow, they do not create any power....They only produce electricity if the turbines are turning..
I don't believe there is a way to move them with another power source that would still allow them to produce more energy than they use to move...
I don't think they would look as bad as those huge power lines and towers that Penna has everywhere, but that is just my opinion...
As for how much you would benefit from the use of them, probably not very much.. They just don't produce enough energy unless you have a lot of wind, like Montana has on its prairies, and the area to install a lot of them..

Penna does not get nearly enough sunlight to make solar energy a really viable source of power.. Perhaps i am wrong there, but all my memories of Penna are of a lot of rainy, cloudy days..Lol
well, maybe not all of them..
Leep: