Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

[sandstone]

I am actually working on something that had come up a long time ago that might satisfy many persons at one time. I just have to wait for SandStone or IceMan to get back to me. The need for green i.e Ecology and Dollars.

Council VP Latchford and I are working on a POSSIBLE resolution to this impasse, one that will bring $$$$ to the Borough of Tyrone while preserving Ice Mountain in its natural state. Can't provide more details at this time, but it could be a win-win situation for SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN and the borough. We will keep you posted.

I am sad to report that there is little interest among Tyrone Borough Council in the resolution that Councilman Latchford and I had been hoping for.
Please make your opinion known to your Borough Council members INDIVIDUALLY. Thank Mayor Kilmartin, Councilman Kosoglow, and Councilman Hanzir for voting to save Ice Mountain from conversion into an industrial windplant. Let Councilpersons Werner, Grazier, and Bryan know that you are displeased with their votes opposed to saving Ice Mountain. Send Councilwoman Pat Stoner a get-well-soon card and let her know that you want to SAVE ICE MOUNTAIN.

Gamesa will be back, SOON, demanding another vote. That is their modus operandi. Just observe their behavior in Logan Township, Shaffer Mountain, etc, and you get the idea.

It's hard to comment on the endeavor you and Bill were comtemplating without knowing what it was....but......apparently you took it to council? Were none of the members interested, or just 3?

The possible solution to this impasse was brought before Tyrone Borough Council during an executive session, so I don't know how each council member responded. However, there was little interest among the council members in general to pursue that solution.

[My2Cents]

What happens to the 50% of the volatile organic compounds that the oxidizer will not destroy? Sounds like Ms. Vislosky is no Gamesa fan.

http://www.windaction.org/news/19840

Gamesa to install equipment at plant

February 4, 2009 by Christian Menno in Bucks County Courier Times

Despite the impending layoff of 184 blade production employees, Gamesa Inc. will install new equipment at its Falls plant as it moves forward with other areas of production.

Falls Supervisors Robert Harvie, Jim Prokopiak and Jonathan Snipes approved a land development waiver Tuesday to allow the Spanish wind turbine manufacturer to install a 1,440-square-foot concrete pad, which will serve as a base for a regenerative thermal oxidizer. Philip Szupka voted no and Dorothy Vislosky abstained.

Szupka and Vislosky did not give detailed reasoning behind their votes but have expressed opposition to most projects dealing with the Keystone Opportunity Improvement Zone where Gamesa is located.

According to Darius Rogers, head of Gamesa's environmental department, the oxidizer will destroy about 50 percent of the volatile organic compounds emitted from the facility.

The installation of the equipment is the result of a negotiated settlement agreement between Gamesa and the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection that was signed in August.

The DEP discovered several violations at the plant and Gamesa was forced to pay $639,161 in state penalties. A compliance consent order was issued to ensure the installation of the oxidizer.

"We are complying with the federal government on schedule," Rogers said.

Rogers did not know the exact cost of the equipment but said it could run anywhere between $500,000 and $1 million.

Prokopiak said this move was a good sign, indicating that the company intends to operate in Falls. Thomas Hecker, attorney for Gamesa, said the company will consolidate its blade manufacturing with another location. The Falls plant will focus on producing engine housings, called nacelles.

Vislosky, however, was skeptical of Gamesa's intentions.

"Even if you invested $1 billion here, we still haven't seen a dime in tax dollars," she said. "So basically, you polluted and got caught. I don't believe anything that Gamesa says."

Gamesa was established in 2006 in the KOIZ, a tax-free zone meant to encourage redevelopment.

Prokopiak said the several hundred jobs that the company created since it came to Falls, along with costly permit fees, has made it an asset to the community.

He estimates that the total amount of permit fees paid by Gamesa at close to $800,000.

"If they didn't come to the KOIZ," he added, "that location would be a ghost town."

Web link: http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/courier_time...

Thanks for above "sammie." The web link at the bottom has a very interesting comment in it's comment section. I certainly am glad that somebody is paying attention to their "wording" in some of the statements made. One really has to be vigilant and constant in reading between the lines in most things this company has to say.
"Volital Organic Compounds being emmited from the facility ??!! The "fix is to be oxidizer, along with a 1,400 sq-ft concrete base to hold it, at the cost of, $500,000.000 to $1 million dollars!?? Then to claim that the oxidizer will "destroy ABOUT 50 percent" of the VOLITAL ORGANIC COMPOUNDS that is being emitted from the facility ??!!
Whew, they have every right to question.... " What about the other 50% !!??"
BTW.... these compounds are many. The DEP being involved with this, tells me, whatever was being emitted must have been a lot of the wrong thing.

[sammie]

My2Cents,

Thanks for pointing out the comment to the article. Here it is:

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/c ... plant.html

mrmonk1200 wrote: "To the powers that be: When you get into something like this with foriegners you need to send in a spy.Look let me back up..... Of course they are investing this is so they can send more of Columbus' ship mates here to America. Now I was one of those people that went there for 3 months of training,after 3 weeks I left. I saw how unsafe and untrue they we're. I speak spanish but I never let on that I did,all I kept hearing was stupid Americanos and we'll fire the Americans and replace with our people. Wake up your selling your selves out."

[My2Cents]

The possible solution to this impasse was brought before Tyrone Borough Council during an executive session, so I don't know how each council member responded. However, there was little interest among the council members in general to pursue that solution.

So, is this "possible solution" dead ?? Can it no longer be brought before our council for more consideration?? Something tells me... or should I say, my gut tells me, whatever this was, I'll bet a turbine it was a fantastic idea !!!

[Bill Latchford]

The possible solution to this impasse was brought before Tyrone Borough Council during an executive session, so I don't know how each council member responded. However, there was little interest among the council members in general to pursue that solution.

So, is this "possible solution" dead ?? Can it no longer be brought before our council for more consideration?? Something tells me... or should I say, my gut tells me, whatever this was, I'll bet a turbine it was a fantastic idea !!!

Hey there My2Cents...It was an idea of a conservancy easement...which says nothing will happen on a certain piece of property forever with a monetary amount offered for such easement. It was offered a few years back and I thought it might be worth trying again, only to find out that nothing has changed from a few years ago to today. No amounts can be guaranteed and a forever type of contract with no guarantee of funds is just to risky in these tough economic times. So I understood the lack of interest in perusing this item. As I have said to SandStone I would have gone along with this plan, even though I am on the side of the Wind Farm. It appeared like a way to make everyone happy. The Borough could get funds for land that is very limited in its development potential, and it would help those wishing no development of "Ice Mountain".

[My2Cents]

Ice Mountain has always belonged to the Borough of Tyrone.... always has, always will (unless sold/leased away). So, with that said, Ice Mountain "is what it is" (think I read that statement somewhere before)... it is sitting up there as it always has. Now that it is becoming so popular, more people are recognizing it more and some are finding fault with it !! Someone saying how bad it looks and something nice needs to grow up there and construction of these turbines up there would help. Most of the fault finding is based on seeing some trash up there. Come on, if it's a mess up there, it certainly didn't happen overnight... If there is trash up there, clean it up, if it needs fixed, fix it.... it belongs to us and to our future generations.... we need to fix it.
Our little town should be very proud that Ice Mountain has been named a "Natural Heritage Area Of Exceptional Conservational Value."
It will cost the borough to "fix it" anyway. Why not bring in sandstone and his ideas along with others who know their stuff and get our Ice Mountain recognized for all it deserves to be ?? It would certainly be worth it, and it will last forever. It will be a mountain as a mountain should be and not an eyesore or concrete jungle.

[Ice Man]

Ice Mountain has always belonged to the Borough of Tyrone.... always has, always will (unless sold/leased away). So, with that said, Ice Mountain "is what it is" (think I read that statement somewhere before)... it is sitting up there as it always has. Now that it is becoming so popular, more people are recognizing it more and some are finding fault with it !! Someone saying how bad it looks and something nice needs to grow up there and construction of these turbines up there would help. Most of the fault finding is based on seeing some trash up there. Come on, if it's a mess up there, it certainly didn't happen overnight... If there is trash up there, clean it up, if it needs fixed, fix it.... it belongs to us and to our future generations.... we need to fix it.
Our little town should be very proud that Ice Mountain has been named a "Natural Heritage Area Of Exceptional Conservational Value."
It will cost the borough to "fix it" anyway. Why not bring in sandstone and his ideas along with others who know their stuff and get our Ice Mountain recognized for all it deserves to be ?? It would certainly be worth it, and it will last forever. It will be a mountain as a mountain should be and not an eyesore or concrete jungle.

Thank you, Councilman Latchford, for taking the initiative and bringing the conservation easement offer before Tyrone Borough Council.

Obviously, I think that a conservation easement on Ice Mountain is a great idea. For those of you unfamiliar with conservation easements, they are like the farmland preservation easements. With a farmland preservation easement, a farmer is paid a lump sum for agreeing to NOT develop all or a portion of his land. Most such easements are perpetual. The amount that the landowner gets is the difference between the development value of the land and its value as farmland. For example, if a farmer puts 100 acres into a perpetual farmland preservation easement, and the value of that 100 acres as farmland is $100,000 and the value as house lots is $500,000, then the farmer would be paid a lump sum of the difference between the two, namely $400,000.

A farmland preservation easement is a very specific type of conservation easement. The easement that the Western Pennsylvania Conservancy (WPC) offered to Tyrone Borough Council is an easement that would preserve Ice Mountain in its natural state and give the borough a payment for the easement. Coming up with funds for such an easement by a private entity such as the WPC could take years.

Thanks again, Councilman! :thumb:

[Ice Man]

We just received our free TYRONE HERALD paper for last Saturday. Mayor Kilmartin had a column in it. In one paragraph, he mentioned that "there has been much discussion over a porposed wind farm for the last several years and that discussion is not over yet. borough council has taken hard looks at this issue while making numerous trips to wind farm sites to see them up close. We realize this is not a cut and dry decision and expect Gamesa will be coming back to council with another proposal soon. The state has even taken notice of our particular situation as I received a personal phone call this past week from Governor Rendell in hopes to push this through."

I am appalled that the governor is doing this, but it goes to show just how difficult it is to defeat the wind farms. And how little he cares about fragmentation, bats, birds, etc.

[Woodrat]

"The state has even taken notice of our particular situation as I received a personal phone call this past week from Governor Rendell in hopes to push this through." --Mayor Jim Kilmartin

I realize Tyrone leaders have a long, proud history of jumping whenever big corporations (PRR, WestVaco) tell them to jump, so the obsequious attitude toward Gamesa is to be expected. But if this conservative Republican town lets itself be muscled by Rendell's green machine it will be rich irony indeed.

[Something to say]

Question. How many acres of land does the borough own up there?

[sandstone]

Question. How many acres of land does the borough own up there?

The Borough of Tyrone owns 3,800 acres around the Sink Run watershed, including much of Ice Mountain.

[Ice Man]

I just received an assessment from a DCNR person who was involved in regulatory siting issues for wind turbines. Here is an honest account of what happens when industry/landowners want to develop land in PA:

DCNR person:

“Regarding the wind issue, and really any other environmental reviews projects, regulations for species and community protection are very weak so it is quite difficult to stop a project from going into an area without cooperation from the developer.

The Natural Heritage program finds and maps areas that are important for conservation but NHAs aren’t listed as requiring protection in permitting regulations so DCNR and DEP is in muddy water trying to force folks to stay out. DCNR technically only makes recommendations for resource protection, DEP is the regulatory agency. Depending on the permit type, resources to be protected are spelled out differently (e.g. some say threatened and endangered species, some also give general sensitive resources language that may be interpreted differently by different DEP folks) so looking into the permit type/s and their related DEP regulations may help you to understand how decisions were made. Even when there is explicit language that refers to on-site resources in regulations, projects still move forward while harming the resources. It is really a shame, but when push comes to shove usually the natural resources lose.”

[My2Cents]

Once again... what's that old saying about "City Hall ?? " Another case of reading between the lines. If it doesn't work the way it's worded here, it will work the way it's worded here !!!

[Ice Man]

Read Mayor Kilmartin's statement below, then read the headline article in today's Altoona Mirror. Can anyone find the discrepancy?

I should have stated this at the meeting as I did to the newspaper. 95% of wind farms are west of the Mississippi River. I do believe wind is a good option for our country. I do not believe it is a good option for Ice Mountain. If wind is only 30% efficient at this time in our area, it truly is not a viable business without being subsidized. As a business owner, I would not be in business very long with a 30% efficiency unless the income was tremendous.
I do think about the ecological perspective and do not like the idea of these being on our watershed and I am not pleased with their commanding presence over our community.

The money is an issue but it isn't the biggest issue for me at all. I will restate that I am for wind energy as long as it is efficient and in the right location. Feel free to pass this on to your JVAS group.

Sincerely,

Jim Kilmartin
Mayor of Tyrone
(814)684-1330 - office
www.tyroneboropa.com
Tyrone-A Place of Pleasant Living

[My2Cents]

I do not understand why "they" keep referring back to that 55% poll that was taken. A petition with over 1500 names, letters, postcards, emails, phone calls to council and our Mayor, letters to the editor, forums presented by well educated individuals who are totally in the know as to what is most likely in store overtime if a lease is signed. Why is all this being disregarded ?? All of that far outweighs that 55%. It seems like all of that is being cast aside.... only that 55% matters... we all know the way that poll was taken was a big snaffooooo !! A primary election, many voters didn't show because it was a primary, many individuals ( including elderly 80-90 year olds) thinking utility bills will come down, Tyrone will be making a lot of money, and thinking windmills as being those little benign things you see behind the barn or shed. People voting yes for something they absolutely had no concept of. Many, many, still have no idea what is knocking at our door... and, right now, many don't care... but, wait 'til all is said and done and things start happening on our watershed and to their lives in general .... then, it will be too late. There are places for turbines but not around our beautiful little corner of the world.