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Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

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jokerman Member

Posts: 27
Location: Tyrone
What do y'all think about the proposed windmill farm on Ice Mountain?
I'm sorta torn on that one. On one hand, I'm in agreement with the necessity of cleaner sources of energy. On the other, it sickens me to think the natural beauty of Ice Mountain will be ruined by the sight of those things, not to mention the impact on the wildlife. I don't know the number of windmills proposed, but each one takes up approximately an acre (roughly the size of a football field), and it seems to me they would be located right on top of the mountain to be most efficient.
I'm sure Tyrone stands to make a ton of money off the deal, but is it worth it? After the initial construction, I doubt if many new jobs would be created- maybe everyone in Tyrone should get free electricity ???
Now I'm REALLY joking...

Post Thu May 10, 2007 9:20 pm
Blain User avatar
Senior Member

Posts: 135
I'd like to know where they propose to put them. Has anybody seen a plan mapping out the area where they want to build these things?

Post Sat May 12, 2007 2:46 pm
Let them cruise

These industrial wind turbines are a nightmare in the making. They are not "green". Most environmental groups oppose them. They are deadly to migratory birds and bats.
These turbines are going up with taxpayer funded money. Gamesa can't put them up without it. Wind farms are a sham. The Europeans have learned this and oppose them at every turn. The energy they produce is miniscule and the environmental damage great.
I would hope that everyone will learn all that they can about wind turbines-the more you know, the less you will like them. A good place to start learning about them is at http://wind-watch.org.

The following is lifted from a e-mail that I recently recieved. It contains some very valid facts. It is put together better than I could, so enjoy.

A "wind farm" on Ice Mountain would violate Federal guidelines regarding the siting of utility-scale wind turbines. The US Fish and Wildlife Service guidance document states that wind energy projects should: Avoid fragmenting large, contiguous tracts of wildlife habitat. Consequently, Gamesa’s intention to possibly site an industrial wind energy facility on Ice Mountain would conflict with Ice Mountain’s designation as a Landscape Conservation Area because large roads and clearings for project infrastructure would cause extensive fragmentation of forest habitat.

The Ice Mountain site is part of a protective forested buffer around the Tyrone Reservoirs, which supply water to area customers. Each wind turbine contains about 200 gallons of oil in its 60-ton nacelle, the center point of the rotating assembly. Oil and water don't mix. Each turbine will be vulnerable to lightning strikes, resulting in a high risk of fire in the forested reservoir watershed. The turbines to be built on Tyrone Borough property would require the construction of miles of new roads on Ice Mountain, resulting in increased runoff and sedimentation. Each turbine also requires the clearing and grading of several acres surrounding it for construction and maintenance. Because of the risk of ice and broken parts being thrown from the rotors, people will not be able to walk near the towers, locking up large portions of Ice Mountain that were previously available to the public for hiking and hunting.

Juniata Valley Audubon questions the ability of the wind power industry to police itself. Despite the above-mentioned publicly-accessible scientific evidence and county planning designations, Gamesa has targeted Ice Mountain to site an industrial windplant. Their action either ignores or dismisses this area’s long-standing designations, which corroborate Ice Mountain’s exceptional conservation value. Gamesa’s effort also disregards the public approval of Ice Mountain as a Greenway - essential for the preservation of our quality of life in Blair County.

Post Sat May 12, 2007 8:42 pm
banksy User avatar
MVP Member

Posts: 1036
Location: North Ridgeville, OH (TAHS 85)
And this is the only thing we should believe. European's appose them at every turn? So no Euro groups support them? They are 100% anti-windmill. As with everything, there are those who oppose and those who propose. What about the affects of burning fossil fuels on the environment? There are pro's and con's to every source of fuel, even what is today considered alternative fuels.

Let them cruise wrote:
These industrial wind turbines are a nightmare in the making. They are not "green". Most environmental groups oppose them. They are deadly to migratory birds and bats......

Post Sun May 13, 2007 12:31 pm
MediumGreek

Obviously, there are those who oppose windmills and those who support windmills.
In Europe, for instance, one group that stidently believes in wind mills is the Pan-European Democratic Blind Transvestites United, or the PED-B-TU.

sandstone MVP Member

Posts: 461
Location: Sinking Valley
Blain wrote:
I'd like to know where they propose to put them. Has anybody seen a plan mapping out the area where they want to build these things?


The Spanish company Gamesa is planning to construct 30 industrial-scale (450' tall) wind turbines between Big Fill Run (Rt 350), southwestward to Ice Mountain paralelling Rt 453 and west toward Rt 53 in Clearfield Couny. They will surround State Game Lands 60 on 3 sides.
The turbines will be located at the highest locations along the mountaintops. Each industrial-scale turbine requires the clearing of several acres for its construction and maintenance, further forest removal for transmission line corridors, and large heavy-duty roads connecting the turbines. More forest removal is needed for the construction of substations, which typically cover several acres.

Anyone who'd like to see what Gamesa has in store for Ice Mountain ought to visit the Allegheny Ridge Industrial Windplant (90 industrial-scale turbines) which Gamesa built along 13 miles of ridge between Blue Knob and Rt 22. (Gamesa has sold part of this windplant to the Australian company Babcock and Brown.) From Tyrone, take I-99 south to the Roaring Spring/East Freedom exit and take Rt 164 west. When you get to the crest of the mountain, you'll see the very wide access roads to the windplant. To get a good sense of "before and after," it's best to backtrack along Old Route 220 and go to the Village of Newry and take Puzzletown Road west toward the mountain. Look for Lilly Mountain Road on the right. Lilly Mountain Road takes you through State Game Land 198 which is what the windplant area looked like before it was devastated by Gamesa. You'll then emerge into the windplant and see its enormous roads and clearings as well as the gargantuan turbines. You be the judge of whether this represents "green energy."

A fact to keep in mind: 4,000 industrial-scale wind turbines will be needed to provide just 10% of Pennsylvania's electricity needs.

Another fact: Pennsylvania has 5 nuclear power plants. 3,000 industrial-scale wind turbines would be needed to produce as much electricity as one nuclear power plant.

On Ice Mountain, the huge ecological costs of an industrial windplant will far exceed its puny benefits.

Post Sun May 13, 2007 9:24 pm
Break_Like_The_Wind

I have it on good authority that Gamesa has contracted with East End to provide meals
for its construction crew. Apparently the onion laden hoagies remind them of the traditional
sandwiches they consume in their home town of Seville. The only difference is that the Spaniards
prepare their sandwiches with a very strong smelling cheese called "pies del dios", which roughly
translated means "the feet of god". The strong smell and bitter aftertaste that the cheese affords is
greatly enjoyed by Gamesa workers. Unfortunately, importation of "pies del dios" is illegal, which prohibits it's inclusion in any of the menus. However, it's expected that East End's traditional customer service will help fill the void.

Gamesa stated that its final decision was very difficult, given East End's stipulation that meals
would only be served between 4 and 8pm (and then, only if they didn't run out of rolls).
However, a last minute offer by East End to make a foot-long hotdog rotisserie and soda fountain
available 24/7 was enough to break the impasse.

Post Sun May 13, 2007 10:41 pm
zapatista User avatar
Member

Posts: 85
Having had the opportunity to experience both "pies del dios" and East End customer service, I'd have to say that the later leaves a far more acerbic aftertaste.
Last edited by zapatista on Sun May 13, 2007 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Sun May 13, 2007 10:42 pm
SMOKEJUMPER Member

Posts: 25
Location: TYRONE, PA
at what point do we say enough is enough. with the price of gas increasing,natural gas going up when do we say we had it with corporate greed. all we do is complain about the prices but are willing to do nothing about it. the new fuels are coming about. like the windmills this is a start but no one wants it in there back yard. to me if we are not willing to some consesions we will be at the mercy of the rich oilmen. :eek: were do we put them then? as for the birds and the bats cats kill more birds than those wind mills do. in california more birds are killed by power lines than wind mills. like with the bats and the I - 99 project that we would put human life below that of those bats that are in that area only one time per year. so when is it enough? :?
SLOW DOWN AND ENJOY LIFE ,ITS TO SHORT AS IT IS.

Post Sun May 13, 2007 11:02 pm
banksy User avatar
MVP Member

Posts: 1036
Location: North Ridgeville, OH (TAHS 85)
The hoagie refererences, while one time funny, are definitely old.

Post Sun May 13, 2007 11:23 pm
smalltownboy

I've got to disagree with you on this one banksy.
All discussions are elevated by the inclusion of East End Hoagie references.
Especially given the fact that it is one of the cultural lynchpins of Tyrone society.

Besides, you and I both know that every topic on this Forum (no matter how weighty) eventually evolves into a discussion about East End hoagies, Middleswarth Potatoe chips or Peanut Butter meltaways (not necessarily in that order).

Why fight it?
Last edited by smalltownboy on Mon May 14, 2007 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Mon May 14, 2007 7:28 am
sandstone MVP Member

Posts: 461
Location: Sinking Valley
SMOKEJUMPER wrote:
at what point do we say enough is enough. with the price of gas increasing,natural gas going up when do we say we had it with corporate greed. all we do is complain about the prices but are willing to do nothing about it. to me if we are not willing to some consesions we will be at the mercy of the rich oilmen. :?


Industrial windplants will have no effect on our consumption of oil. Windfarms produce only electricity. Less than 2% of the oil used in the US is used to produce electricity. The US actually exports more oil than it uses to produce electricity. Industrial windfarms will have no effect on our consumption of oil, foreign or domestic.

Post Mon May 14, 2007 12:55 pm
banksy User avatar
MVP Member

Posts: 1036
Location: North Ridgeville, OH (TAHS 85)
sandstone wrote:
SMOKEJUMPER wrote:
at what point do we say enough is enough. with the price of gas increasing,natural gas going up when do we say we had it with corporate greed. all we do is complain about the prices but are willing to do nothing about it. to me if we are not willing to some consesions we will be at the mercy of the rich oilmen. :?


Industrial windplants will have no effect on our consumption of oil. Windfarms produce only electricity. Less than 2% of the oil used in the US is used to produce electricity. The US actually exports more oil than it uses to produce electricity. Industrial windfarms will have no effect on our consumption of oil, foreign or domestic.


No effect at all? Are there any coal fueled elecricity providers in PA? How do those providers get the coal from the mine to the generation plant where it is burned to produce electricity.

Post Mon May 14, 2007 2:48 pm
Vidalia

banksy wrote:
Are there any coal fueled elecricity providers in PA? How do those providers get the coal from the mine to the generation plant where it is burned to produce electricity.


Banksy, which type of coal are you referring to, anthracite, bituminous, or lignite?
It makes a big difference in terms of BTU's generated per pound which obviously has a direct correlation to the amount of electricity produced.
We should also try establish where the coal was mined to help determine the cost to transport it.
Are you thinking of any particular region?

Post Mon May 14, 2007 3:24 pm
MediumGreek

BTU?
Does that stand for British Thermal Unit? Why did they standardize British Thermal Units as apposed to other thermal units? Peruvian? Angolan?

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