Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

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sandstone
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by sandstone »

Ice Man wrote:

I thought it noteworthy that Kosoglow explained before the vote that he was not voting against wind on Ice Mountain. He said that Casselberry, the engineer, said the ecological risk is minimal, so the ecological impact was no concern.

1. Council intends to vote again on this soon, perhaps as early as next month.
2. Casselberry and Associated did a hydrological assessment of the Ice Mt watershed. The firm did not do any ecological assessment. Ecology is not hydrology.
ECOLOGY = the study of organisms and the environment: the study of the relationships between living organisms and their interactions with their natural or developed environment.

HYDROLOGY = the study of the properties, distribution, and effects of water on the earth's surface, in the soil and underlying rocks, and in the atmosphere.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Something to say »

This is not a victory folks, this is a delay.

Council... shrewdly, has put Gamesa against the wall.

They stated they are waiting for a more lucrative deal....possibly.... hoping Gamesa will bite and sweeten the pot.

"Kilmartin said he also was interested in seeing what other offers await the borough but admitted Gamesa's proposal probably would come up for a vote again."

''It may,'' he ( Kilmartin ) said. ''We'll see.''



If they plan on voting AGAIN possibly next month...it seems they are waiting for
a) Pat Stoner to break the tie.....
b) Gamesa to offer more money...
c) both.


At any rate they are still wanting the windmills up there $$.

I think its time for a meeting of the minds. We need to get together and decide on how to reach the residents of Tyrone and put an end to this. If TYRONE raises up against this...surely council will do what is expected of them.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Bill Latchford »

- Last night was surely interesting. I figured but did not know what would happen with the vote. I had an idea that it would pass or fail by only one. With Council down by a voting member last night allowed for a tie to come into play. It does appear that Council has left the door open for another vote at some point if conditions change in favor of what the Council is looking for from Gamesa or in the future from a competing Wind Farm developer.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Ice Man »

Something to say wrote:I think its time for a meeting of the minds. We need to get together and decide on how to reach the residents of Tyrone and put an end to this. If TYRONE raises up against this...surely council will do what is expected of them.

Anyone interested in helping with this should contact Juniata Valley Audubon president Terry Wentz or Juniata Valley Audubon vice president Dave Bonta. Their contact info is at http://www.jvas.org/bod.html

:flag: :thumb: :guns:
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

:roll: This is enough to give ya grey hair !!! I was so happy when that vote came down last evening... didn't the Mayor (or someone) mention at that meeting, they would ride out the remaining 2 years then be done with this company ?? Also, wasn't it mentioned, at the end of the 2 years, council would then look into other competition ?? Was I hearing that wrong?? How can they keep coming back and coming back month after month ??? Don't they get it ?? Windmills are not wanted around this area. Tyrone needs to get on with it's own business at hand... council has enough to do... these people are starting to become leeches.
We can't help they spent a lot of money in Bucks county then turning around and closeing everything down. We can't help that they are spending a lot of money moving things to Ebensburg. We can't help that they are spending a lot of money manufacturing blades, blades, and more blades, in Ebensburg. We can't help it that they came into this area, sitting up shop, putting the cart before the horse, thinking they were just gonna' plow right through here.
Poor planning... poor planning.
To those on council voting "NO" last evening (for whatever their reason)... that vote was very, very much appreciated.... Thank-You !!! Overtime, and many years from now, the people of this community will appreciate your stance and so will Mother Nature.
To those who chose to vote "Yes" for these things... please stop and try to reconsider all that was at stake here. No amount of money could ever pay for the possible damage to our watershed, to our forest canopy, and to all that live within and above Ice Mountain.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Something to say »

My2Cents wrote::roll: This is enough to give ya grey hair !!! I was so happy when that vote came down last evening... didn't the Mayor (or someone) mention at that meeting, they would ride out the remaining 2 years then be done with this company ?? Also, wasn't it mentioned, at the end of the 2 years, council would then look into other competition ?? Was I hearing that wrong?? How can they keep coming back and coming back month after month ??? Don't they get it ?? Windmills are not wanted around this area. Tyrone needs to get on with it's own business at hand... council has enough to do... these people are starting to become leeches.
We can't help they spent a lot of money in Bucks county then turning around and closeing everything down. We can't help that they are spending a lot of money moving things to Ebensburg. We can't help that they are spending a lot of money manufacturing blades, blades, and more blades, in Ebensburg. We can't help it that they came into this area, sitting up shop, putting the cart before the horse, thinking they were just gonna' plow right through here.
Poor planning... poor planning.
To those on council voting "NO" last evening (for whatever their reason)... that vote was very, very much appreciated.... Thank-You !!! Overtime, and many years from now, the people of this community will appreciate your stance and so will Mother Nature.
To those who chose to vote "Yes" for these things... please stop and try to reconsider all that was at stake here. No amount of money could ever pay for the possible damage to our watershed, to our forest canopy, and to all that live within and above Ice Mountain.

I hear you My2Cents, but, the problem is...they keep coming back because Council keeps the door open for them to do so. Gosh I hate sounding like the killjoy. You are right...a large percentage of people in TYRONE do NOT want the windmills on ICE MOUNTAIN.......COUNCIL, HOWEVER, DOES. Maybe I'm stoopid. My interpretation of last night's meeting is that THEY WANT the WINDPLANT...THEY JUST WANT MORE MONEY FOR IT...therefore they are keeping the door open for EVEN MORE companies to walk in with better OFFERS...BIGGER BUX. And I believe if GAMESA offers those desired bux...well, it doesn't matter who hands out the dough...as long as its enough. Why else would there be a possibility of another vote in the near future? When I was a member of a certain council...we voted no ...we meant no.......unless....the dynamics changed in our favor. Then it was up for vote again.

Seems to me those that voted NO...voted NO for all the wrong reasons ( out of their own mouths...they're waiting for more money). :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :mob:

I don't feel gratitude ..... I'm frustrated and angry. Hades, I'm even considering MOVING downtown.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by My2Cents »

But, but, but....maybe, maybe,..... maybe they are just... they are just..... just... Oh, I can't stand it.....
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by sandstone »

My2Cents wrote::How can they keep coming back and coming back month after month ??? Don't they get it ?? Windmills are not wanted around this area. .
In Logan Township, Gamesa kept coming back meeting after meeting requesting windplant privileges until the Logan Township Supervisors told Gamesa that they would not entertain any requests closer than one year apart from the last one. In other words, Gamesa is not welcome at the Logan Township meetings more than once a year.

I agree strongly with Something to Say. There were 3 NO votes, and 2 were because they wanted more money. So Gamesa will offer them more money, getting 2 additional YES votes.

As I said in a letter to the editor a month ago, NOT ONCE HAS ANY TYRONE BOROUGH COUNCIL MEMBER ACKNOWLEDGED ICE MOUNTAIN'S STATUS AS A UNIQUE BLAIR COUNTY NATURAL HERITAGE AREA OF EXCEPTIONAL CONSERVATION VALUE. NOT ONCE HAS ANY TYRONE BOROUGH COUNCIL MEMBER ACKNOWLEDGED THE RESULTS OF THE CARNEGIE MUSEUM/NATIONAL AVIARY/PENN STATE GOLDEN EAGLE STUDY.

THE BLAIR COUNTY NATURAL HERITAGE INVENTORY SPECIFICALLY RECOMMENDS THAT NO ADDITIONAL ROADS BE BUILT ON ICE MOUNTAIN. THE CARNEGIE MUSEUM GOLDEN EAGLE STUDY STATES THAT GOLDEN EAGLES WILL BE HARMED BY A WINDPLANT ON ICE MOUNTAIN.

No council member even mentioned those issues. One even thought that the Casselberry and Associates study addressed those issues!!!
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by sammie »

It appears that borough board members do not understand (or care) how precious this natural area is, nor do they understand (or care) that they would be harming it for something that doesn't work. Wish all the members would have stated why they voted a certain way last night.

Parts of an opinion letter posted a few days ago on this thread bear repeating:

http://www.thedailynewsonline.com/artic ... 024776.prt

The Daily News
Serving Genesee, Wyoming, and Orleans Counties, NY

Letter: Wording of Orangeville wind turbine survey was biased
By Dr. Joseph A. Zampogna
Published: Friday, January 9, 2009 11:01 AM EST

[snip]...Do town officials and developers have an altruistic desire to "save the environment" and help reduce our dependence on fossil fuels by allowing a wind turbine farm to be developed in Orangeville? Objective scientific evidence clearly rejects the claim that wind energy is a viable large scale alternative to fossil fuels or nuclear energy.

Wind energy projects across the globe have not replaced even one fossil fuel or nuclear generating plant.

Fundamentally, wind energy is neither reliable nor predictable. It cannot provide power on demand, it is not compact, and it is not economical.

In reality, wind power development is sold to a community based on temporary financial incentives offered by the developers. The only thing "green" in this transaction is the developers' subsidized profit paid for with our tax dollars and shared with local supporters who have signed land-lease contracts with the developers...[snip]

[snip]...The unfortunate consequence of this self-serving motivation is that when the government subsidies and tax breaks end, wind turbine projects will languish. This will leave local communities with short term gain for some, and long term pain for all because of an unnecessary exploitation of the environment. Sadly, there is no difference in outcomes between greed and incompetence.

We all support new and efficient technologies that will help satisfy our large scale energy needs at a reasonable cost. However, society has limited financial resources and expending large amounts of taxpayer dollars on inefficient wind energy projects will further delay the development of real solutions to all our energy demands.

Dr. Joseph A. Zampogna is a citizen of Orangeville.
Last edited by sammie on Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by sammie »

In case some of you do not get the Altoona Mirror, I thought you might be interested in this article that appeared in yesterday's paper:

Altoona Mirror
Monday, January 12, 2009

Wind education center proposed

By David Hurst
dhurst@altoonamirror.com

PORTAGE - When people want a closer look at the region's towering windmills, forester Michael Barton is often the tour guide.

After years of giving tours of some of the sites and working around the turbines with Gamesa Corp., the Sidman-area man has gotten the hint.

"People want to see them. They're interested in how all of this works," he said.

Barton wants to build a wind education center in Portage Township off Route 164, assured it will lure tourists like the ones he's been guiding for more than a year.

His vision of the Appalachian Ridge Wind Energy Education Center moved forward Thursday when Portage's municipal water authority told its solicitor to draw up a lease option - for possible 5 years - that could give him the land to do it.

The authority has an acre-plus property near the Martindale reservoir.

A home that once stood on the site has been demolished but has infrastructure there to support the wind center, solicitor Bill Barbin said.

It also overlooks three towering Gamesa turbines, Barton said.

Bartin said he would start a non profit group to run it.

He envisions a one-story ranch cabin displaying wind instruments and the process involved. He said that he has a pledge from Gamesa that it would donate a life-sized blade for exhibit.

Barton also wants a working scale model of a windmill.

He expects the center will draw school groups and community organizations as well as tourists, who have shown up in large numbers.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Ice Man »

sammie wrote:In case some of you do not get the Altoona Mirror, I thought you might be interested in this article that appeared in yesterday's paper:

Altoona Mirror
Monday, January 12, 2009

Wind education center proposed

By David Hurst
dhurst@altoonamirror.com

PORTAGE - When people want a closer look at the region's towering windmills, forester Michael Barton is often the tour guide.

After years of giving tours of some of the sites and working around the turbines with Gamesa Corp., the Sidman-area man has gotten the hint.

"People want to see them. They're interested in how all of this works," he said.

Barton wants to build a wind education center in Portage Township off Route 164, assured it will lure tourists like the ones he's been guiding for more than a year.

His vision of the Appalachian Ridge Wind Energy Education Center moved forward Thursday when Portage's municipal water authority told its solicitor to draw up a lease option - for possible 5 years - that could give him the land to do it.

The authority has an acre-plus property near the Martindale reservoir.

A home that once stood on the site has been demolished but has infrastructure there to support the wind center, solicitor Bill Barbin said.

It also overlooks three towering Gamesa turbines, Barton said.

Bartin said he would start a non profit group to run it.

He envisions a one-story ranch cabin displaying wind instruments and the process involved. He said that he has a pledge from Gamesa that it would donate a life-sized blade for exhibit.

Barton also wants a working scale model of a windmill.

He expects the center will draw school groups and community organizations as well as tourists, who have shown up in large numbers.
Bill Latchford wrote:
- Just to be fair there was also forester that took myself and other Council Members through the Wind Farm up at Allegheny Ridge who was very knowledgeable and who had been a forester for over 20 years. So this only proves that you will have professional foresters that will be on one side or the other also. Mr. Barton seemed to be a guy that would not be just a mouth piece for a Wind Turbine company. Council Members make nothing off this project, they are only voting on what they believe will be in the best of their community.


Michael Barton receives payment directly and indirectly from windplant developers. He does not deny this. He is one of their primary mouthpieces.

To get a sense of Mr. Barton's ethics, I suggest that you read Appalachian Autumn, by Tyrone's own Marcia Bonta. The Bonta family lives in Plummer's Hollow just east of Tyrone. Michael Barton is the forester described in the book.

Appalachian Autumn

Marcia Bonta

University of Pittsburgh Press, 1994

Like her popular Appalachian Spring, Marcia Bonta’s book offers a day-by-day account of the changing world of nature in the mountains of central Pennsylvania. This time she chronicles the beauties of the autumn months as she walks the familiar roads and trails of her 500-acre mountain-top farm, noting the minute transformations of the season as well as the more dramatic ones. But her quiet sojourn in the natural world is shattered by the intrusion of a lumberman who insists upon clear-cutting a neighboring property. The massive bulldozers and skidders crush every tree and shrub, weed, and wildflower, leaving only rubble in their wake. The Bontas become involved in a lawsuit challenging this violation of the land they love and seeking to protect their own property from the effects of the logging. “Autumn is a bittersweet time,” Marcia writes, “a season of good-byes, when, after the flaming leaves fall and start the inevitable process of decay, we are left with only the bare bones of nature.” Fleeing from the whine of chain saws and the crash of falling trees, she roams the mountain-top, watching wild turkeys forage in the field, flocks of migrating birds feast on wild grapes, does and bucks eye each other in their mating ritual. But she can never completely evade the insistent question: What is the relationship between humans and nature? Does ownership give one the right to do as one pleases with the land and all the flora and fauna living on it? Does the natural world exists solely to satisfy mankind’s desire for profit? The answer is not simple; it cannot be drawn in winter’s black and white. But the issues must be of concern to every thoughtful person. Marcia Bonta’s Appalachian Autumn offers a new voice in the ongoing debate.

“A suspense-filled account of an attempt to protect the rights of all the life, non-human as well as human, of the mountain.” — Bird Watcher’s Digest

Marcia Bonta is a freelance nature writer and the author of, in addition to her Appalachian seasons books, Outbound Journeys in Pennsylvania, More Outbound Journeys in Pennsylvania, Women in the Field, American Women Afield (editor), and Escape to the Mountain. She has written more than three hundred magazine articles for such publications as Birder's World, Bird Watcher's Digest, Living Bird, and Hawk Mountain News. She writes “Pennsylvania Outbound Journeys for the Family” for Pennsylvania Wildlife and "The Naturalist's Eye" for Pennsylvania Game News. Her work has appeared in several anthologies, including Season of Adventure: Traveling Tales and Outdoor Journeys of Women over 50 ; American Nature Writing 1996; On Nature's Terms: Contemporary Voices; and Reading the Landscape: Writing a World . She is a popular lecturer on nature and nature writing.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by zapatista »

kayaker-one wrote:
I thought it noteworthy that Kosoglow explained before the vote that he was not voting against wind on Ice Mountain. ...He felt that the Council should wait until their 5 year agreement with Gamesa was up in 2 years, and then see what the other wind companies would offer. He knows there are 14 other wind companies in PA now, he wants to negotiate with them in 2 years to get a better deal than what Gamesa is offering.
How long are Council terms?

If Borough Council waits 2 years before signing a lease with a Windmill Company then some of the seats may be up for re-election.

I think that'd be a prime opportunity for some "Save Ice Mountain" candidates to throw their hat in the ring.
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by yertle »

zapatista wrote: How long are Council terms?

If Borough Council waits 2 years before signing a lease with a Windmill Company then some of the seats may be up for re-election.

I think that'd be a prime opportunity for some "Save Ice Mountain" candidates to throw their hat in the ring.
I nominate Dave Bonta for Borough Council and I've got the perfect campaign slogan.

Bontasaurus Won't Ignore Us!

:D
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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by zapatista »

I think I found one of Kosoglow's old campaign flyers.
...or maybe it was Hanzir's ?

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Re: Windmills on Ice Mountain - Gamesa Wind Turbines

Post by Bill Latchford »

Getting on Council to push only one agenda sounds like such a wonderful cause to serve the entire community. We will see how far that goes when it comes down to the hard decisions of telling someone who has a child that would benefit from a parking space in front of their home but whom has off street parking and they can not have that wanted handicap parking space, or maybe the tough ones like tax increases. There is a great deal more to this small wonderful community than a mountain 4 miles away. I can honestly say that nothing ticks me off more than when people try or succeed at getting on Council and don't care about anyone else problems but their own. You must care about the entire community. You are not even looking at what the financial benefits are to a small community of putting a Wind Farm on a mountain 4 miles away would do for it. We on Council have been told by more than just one person or company that there is minimal risk to our watershed if a proposed Wind Farm were put into place. This would not be the only watershed with a Wind Plant in place on it. No one knows what the future holds...unless there are some psychics on this board I was unaware of.
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