Political discussion - Iraq

[banksy]

Irrelevant content removed - Knock it off - Rick

I strongly recommend reading our forum rules, again if necessary.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=439

[DonkeyHoagie]

Irrelevant content removed - Knock it off - Rick

I strongly recommend reading our forum rules, again if necessary.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=439

[banksy]

Content removed by Rick

[Old Sgt]

WOW, I think I would have like to read those last couple posts.

[Something to say]

This is from someone who has been to the war on terror. It doesn't matter how or why it started but as a soldier who is about to head back this summer, All I know is we have to finish it. I'd rather we fight them over there, with soldiers, than fight them here with innocent Americans being killed. Part of the problem for the average americans is the style of reporting done by our press. Good news doesn't make headlines. Bad news does. A lot of my friends have done several tours and they talk of the major progress we are making. Just look at Anbar prov as an example. last year every mission was a contact. This year reporters don't even wear body armor or K pot anymore.
Repubs or Dems it doesn't matter. If there was a Dem prez the repubs would be screaming about the war instead of the other way around. Congress voted to send the troops to war and must stick by it.

Bottom line: We will win, we must win, we have no choice but to win!

I will send posts from "down range" this summer to try and give an honest assesment of how things are going. :steelers:

I've stayed out of this subject because the whole thing is upsetting to me, but out of boredom, I finally took a peek...lol. Old Sarge... I have the utmost respect for our soldiers. I lost a cousin in Viet Nam and I just wish we never had the need or desire to go to war over anything. Please keep in mind that I both respect and admire you for defending our country. However I must say that you said something in this post that really bothers me and I would be ashamed of myself if I didn't respond to it. You probably see above what statement I'm referring to. Do you not think that the innocent people over there...those that have absolutely no say in their foreign or domestic affairs, are wishing this war was being fought over here? INNOCENT people are being killed daily over there.


War sucks. Period. We've been a very fortunate country. I'm not so certain we will be able to keep bloodshed from our land if we continually keep involving ourselves in places we don't belong. With that said... MY prayers will be with you...your family...and every other US citizen overseas.

[Old Sgt]

I think maybe I didn't explain myself very well. The main people we are fighting over there, Islamic Extremists, are the same people who think nothing of killing innocent Iraqi's. American soldiers go out of our way to avoid hurting people who don't deserve it. I really don't want to go deep into this subject as it's hard to explain what you've learned in a year to just a sentance or two. By having American Soldiers in Arab lands gives a focus for all the crazys who would other wise attack us here. TheIraqi people themselves are coming over to our side, passing information and even manning check points because they are tired of the terrorists and want them gone. The terrorists we fight are holdovers from the former dictatorship, Saudi extremists. Syrian extremists, Jordan, Iran, ect, extremists. Some of these people declared war on the US and the west in the early 90's. (The American people just didn't pay attention).The extremists chance is here at last. THOSE are the people I was refering to. Yes, If I have to fight them, I would rather fight them anywhere but Home.
I understand your war loss....My Uncle was killed in Vietnam.
War does suck.
Thanks for your prayers.

[banksy]

What about the Texas Extremist who lied to declare war on Iraq? You don't think Bush's religion played a large role in his decision to get us in this war to begin with? Do you think the Iraqi people want what the US is doing in their country. The civilians do not even want us there. War was the WRONG answer to the problem in Iraq. It is not the place of the US to police democracy in foreign lands. No hijackers were from Iraq and there is no proof that Bin Laden was being harbored in Iraw when the US was searching for him. The UN did not support a war decree, but Bush felt to be above the UN. He is a war monger who has us fighting a war in two countries now and would like to add a third.

[submarinerswife]

Old Sgt thank you for serving your country. My dh served 20 years serving our country and did it proudly. He was there for the beginning of the war but not on ground but in his sub. My nephew did a year in Iraq and his dad served in Kuwait. Military service runs deep in both of our families. Again thank you for serving and keeping us safe.

Banksy I could say a lot to you but my post would be deleted for sure. So I'll just not say it and waste my time posting to get deleted.

[banksy]

Old Sgt thank you for serving your country. My dh served 20 years serving our country and did it proudly. He was there for the beginning of the war but not on ground but in his sub. My nephew did a year in Iraq and his dad served in Kuwait. Military service runs deep in both of our families. Again thank you for serving and keeping us safe.

Banksy I could say a lot to you but my post would be deleted for sure. So I'll just not say it and waste my time posting to get deleted.

PM me then. All I am saying is that I think the reasons for being there are misguided. I fully support those that are there but at the same time feel we should bring them home.

[Beck]

Banksy I must of missed it but when was your tour in Iraq?

[banksy]

Banksy I must of missed it but when was your tour in Iraq?

What's that have to do with my opinion? When was Bush's tour... anywhere? I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours, regardless of being there.

[Something to say]

My grandfather served in both WW1 and WW2. In fact many members of my family have served throughout the years. I am and have always been proud of them. I have the utmost respect and admiration for military men and women. I fully support our soldiers. However, I agree with Banksy. Those of us that have not worn a uniform are no less patriotic nor do we love our country any less than people who have. But all that is irrelevant to what he is saying.

We went into this for all the wrong reasons. We were lied to by our government. 60 Minutes aired a show a few weeks ago that stated that Colin Powell and the rest of the powers that be, sent our military overseas on lies by one man ( THE source of intelligence ) claiming that there were Weapons of Mass Destruction being produced. And they probably are somewhere. But his claims have been unfounded. Or so we're told.

Today I read that we have the highest military drop out rate since 1980. The suicide rate of American soldiers is at an all time high. People talk about winning this war. What, as banksy as asked, determines if we are winning or not? Is it a numbers game? Do we win if, in the end, there are more dead Iraqis than Americans? Or have we won if all the killing has taken place in their land as opposed to ours? Is this war truly being fought to ensure a democracy in Iraq? Do we keep fighting until every terrorist is dead? And how soon will that be?


I'm asking. Seriously. Please someone tell me...WHY ARE WE STILL THERE? What is the expected outcome? Can someone please explain to me, in simple terms, why we are over there and what change is going to come from us being there?

I just don't get it. We have so many problems facing us right here at home. Our children are dying from overdoses. The crime rate in this county alone is astronomical. People are homeless. Our healthcare system is a mess. We are extremely in debt. The average American family is struggling to heat their homes. You can't send your children to school without worrying about their safety. And you pray to God that you've done things right...that your child is grounded and doesn't become the shooter. And social security...don't even get me started on that mess. GOOD GOD. We need to focus on the destruction here. And hollywood..the land of fruits and nuts...is sending a clear message to the rest of the world. We as Americans are living the highlife. As writers we can strike because we aren't being paid 400K a week. We can afford 100K haircuts. We all live in mansions and we can all take our cute little doggies for pedicures and have their cavities filled.

Maybe I'm just plain stupid. But I do know this.. I will never step into another's home and tell them how to live when my own home is in total chaos. And I surely wouldn't send people that trust me in my decisions.. as being head of my household...to do it for me. But that's me.. Maybe I just care too much.

[Beck]

This is from someone who has been to the war on terror. It doesn't matter how or why it started but as a soldier who is about to head back this summer, All I know is we have to finish it. I'd rather we fight them over there, with soldiers, than fight them here with innocent Americans being killed. Part of the problem for the average americans is the style of reporting done by our press. Good news doesn't make headlines. Bad news does. A lot of my friends have done several tours and they talk of the major progress we are making. Just look at Anbar prov as an example. last year every mission was a contact. This year reporters don't even wear body armor or K pot anymore.
Repubs or Dems it doesn't matter. If there was a Dem prez the repubs would be screaming about the war instead of the other way around. Congress voted to send the troops to war and must stick by it.

Bottom line: We will win, we must win, we have no choice but to win!

I will send posts from "down range" this summer to try and give an honest assesment of how things are going. :steelers:

Banksy, you are right we are all entitled to our opinions. I like to get my facts from someone that really knows whats going on and to do that I want to hear from a soldier.... I know a few young men that have served over in Iraq and they saw the need to be there. They have also seen the difference that this war has made. Do I like war? NO... Am I glad that it happened? NO... Do I support it? YES because I support the men and women, sons and daughters, brothers sisters that are there!! Do I agree 100% with Bush? NO way... but he is still the Commander in Chief.. He is still to be respected ...
I don't let on to know anything about politics, or about war...as a matter of fact I know very little but I do understand respect and also honor.... and in order to do those two things I stand beside our troops and our President.... also knowing that he can't be re-elected to a third term!

[banksy]

Banksy, you are right we are all entitled to our opinions. I like to get my facts from someone that really knows whats going on and to do that I want to hear from a soldier.... I know a few young men that have served over in Iraq and they saw the need to be there. They have also seen the difference that this war has made. Do I like war? NO... Am I glad that it happened? NO... Do I support it? YES because I support the men and women, sons and daughters, brothers sisters that are there!! Do I agree 100% with Bush? NO way... but he is still the Commander in Chief.. He is still to be respected ...
I don't let on to know anything about politics, or about war...as a matter of fact I know very little but I do understand respect and also honor.... and in order to do those two things I stand beside our troops and our President.... also knowing that he can't be re-elected to a third term! :P

Do I agree 100% with Bush? NO way... but he is still the Commander in Chief.. He is still to be respected ...

I respect the US President as well, but feel that to not voice my disdain for improperly getting us into a war would disrespect my duty as an American. I won't blindly agree with Bush just because he is President.

I do understand respect and also honor.... and in order to do those two things I stand beside our troops and our President.

So, then what you are saying is that in roder to respect and honor the President, you must stand beside him and agree with his leadership and direction. In light of that, do you do that regardless of your beliefs and convictions? What is your stance on abortion and stem cell research. Bush's beliefs and convictions are clear, so I suspect your's must follow suit if your definition of respect and duty as an American follow through on all things, not just war.

What I am saying is this... do I support the troops and their endeavors? Certainly. We learned a valuable lesson in losing a war in Vietnam regarding troop support and respect. Do I believe that our troops should be in Iraq, absolutely not. To add to your stance that you want to hear from soldiers that have been to Iraq, there are as many soldiers who say we should not be there as there are that feel we should. There are Generals who are advising more troops and those who are advising troop reduction. Is there some good being done in Iraq, indeed... but I feel there is far more worse being done than good. There is more hatred for Americans in the Middle-East than ever, all due to George Bush and his insistence that we bomb Iraq and Afghanistan (and threaten Iraq.) Why can't we just simply leave now like we could in other endeavors we have been in such as Bosnia? Because we created this civil unrest. Bush clearly has no game plan. I asked earlier how do you knwo when you've won this war. I asked because I knew there was no answer. Bush certainly has no answer. Cheney will tell you keep it going since Haliburton has already made their billions. This is a war that we not only will not win, but we have already lost it. There is a entirely new generation of young Muslim's growing up with a hatred for Americans, far more than any in our generation of generations past.

[Conan_the_Hoagarian]

What about the Texas Extremist who lied to declare war on Iraq? You don't think Bush's religion played a large role in his decision to get us in this war to begin with? Do you think the Iraqi people want what the US is doing in their country. The civilians do not even want us there. War was the WRONG answer to the problem in Iraq. It is not the place of the US to police democracy in foreign lands. No hijackers were from Iraq and there is no proof that Bin Laden was being harbored in Iraw when the US was searching for him. The UN did not support a war decree, but Bush felt to be above the UN. He is a war monger who has us fighting a war in two countries now and would like to add a third.

I agree wholeheartedly. Banksy's observations are amazingly insightful.

However, he failed to mention the complex relationships between the U.S. government, the Bush family, the Bin Laden family and the Saudi Arabian government that eventually led to the attacks on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon.

As we've all learned, 9/11 was a plot designed and perpetrated by the Bush administration to provide an excuse for the invasion of Iraq.

After the successful invasion, Iraq's oil revenues were to be divided equally among all the players (mentioned above).

However, the war monger didn't count on the strength and persistence of the indigenous Iraqi freedom fighters who took up arms against him and his invading army.

Hasn't anyone besides Banksy watched Farenheit 9/11? ...it was a huge success in Europe.