Political discussion - Iraq

[Beck]

Banksy, I guess thats why we are all entitled to our personal feelings and beliefs! I stated before that I don't agree with Bush 100% and that doesn't only apply to the war... I won't get into Stem Cell or Abortion.... that would just take things way off course... I guess my beliefs were instilled in me as a child... We don't always like everything about everyone.. and we don't always see eye to eye but we still can respect a person... So I respect the President.. and will do so even if Hillary Clinton gets in!!! Enough Politics for me.... I HATE politics!!!!

[banksy]

Hasn't anyone besides Banksy watched Farenheit 9/11? ...it was a huge success in Europe.

I've actually never seen it as I don't particularly like Michael Moore.

[yertle]

Hasn't anyone besides Banksy watched Farenheit 9/11? ...it was a huge success in Europe.

I've actually never seen it as I don't particularly like Michael Moore.

That's surprising. You two could be twins, ideologically.

You certainly employ the same methods.
You pay lip service to the troops by talking about how much you support them, then out of the other side of your mouth you denigrate their commander-in-chief and do your best to verbally undermine public support for their efforts.

To bad the whoremonger (Clinton) wasn't in office on 9/11 - we could've just bombed a couple pharmaceutical plants and called it a day.

I'm sure you could've gotten behind that.

[banksy]

Hasn't anyone besides Banksy watched Farenheit 9/11? ...it was a huge success in Europe.

I've actually never seen it as I don't particularly like Michael Moore.

That's surprising. You two could be twins, ideologically.

You certainly employ the same methods.
You pay lip service to the troops by talking about how much you support them, then out of the other side of your mouth you denigrate their commander-in-chief and do your best to verbally undermine public support for their efforts.

To bad the whoremonger (Clinton) wasn't in office on 9/11 - we could've just bombed a couple pharmaceutical plants and called it a day.

I'm sure you could've gotten behind that.

Sorry I am not a lemming and follow blindly. I don't see voicing an opposing view to the President as denigrating him. Do you think anyone who doesn't just agree with the President as denigrating him? I'm sorry I think for my own.

[zapatista]

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I heard that after years of suffering through Bill's extramarital affairs, Hillary's sworn off men for good.

Does that make her a fishmonger?


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[yertle]

Sorry I am not a lemming and follow blindly. I don't see voicing an opposing view to the President as denigrating him. Do you think anyone who doesn't just agree with the President as denigrating him? I'm sorry I think for my own.

Are you sure about that?

The drivel your trying to pawn off as original thinking sounds exactly like the same tired crap their peddling on moveon.org.

Lemming, thy name is Banksy.


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[Old Sgt]

Beck and Yertle,
Thanks for your comments.

Banksy,
My intent with my comments are to say that there is a whole other side to this question than what the press is reporting. Do they even mention how many schools are now open in places that have never had schools? The thousnds of new wells we have drilled so people can drink fresh water instead of river water that their own sewage flows into? Where did you get the information that the Iraqi people don't want us there? other soldiers who have served all over Iraq tell me about the people who come up every day thanking them for being there. Not everyone as some have their own agendas (like the former regime members) Somone made the comment that the kids are growing up hating us. If you had ever been there you would know that the kids "Love Us " more than anyone. When we are on patrol the follow us around and bug us like crazy. American soldiers are always trying to shoo them away as they don't want them to get hurt in the event of contact. I can go on with examples and comments like this forever. Will it change your mind? Probably not, so why bother. All I'm asking is for you to open your mind, get over you intense hatered for the prez, and take an "Honest" look at the situation.
To the person who brought up Michael More's F-911. I saw the movie. In fact, I was at an Infantry Sgt's course (11B BNCOC) at Ft Benning with Sgt's who were in that movie.(4th ID) They were extremly jacked about it. They said that reporter lied to them and took everything out of context to make things look bad. The reporters misrepresented themselves and the project or they would have never even talked to them. It's amazing what kind of spin you can put on anything with good editing. Have you seen the Repubs movie in response? It proves just about everything in F-911 is made up. I guess spin is spin....either way! Personally, I would never spend money on a movie Michael Moore made. His hatered for the current admin. has blinded him and has caused a closed mind. To Michael Moore he knows everything and those who disagree with him are wrong.
The comment we will lose and already have lost is how you show support for the troops? You're like all the rest of the blinded left wingers who think if the mouth the words "I support the troops" they can go on to say anything they want that counters that phrase. I guess I may as well tell the Birgade Commander that we shouldn't go because Banksy said we already lost! (Not hardly) I am going....and guess what? I volunteered!
The above will be my last words on this subject. Frankly, I know better than to discuss these kind of subjects. Banksy, your words are frustrating to say the least. I know you have the right to say them but I hope none of my young Soldiers ever read them.

To submarinerswife, Thanks to you and your family for their history in serving our country. Just because you are not on the ground doesn't mean your part in the war on terror is not important. I don't think I could be a Submariner. I admire his service. Thanks for your kind comments.

[Something to say]

Whoaa... I am a republican. I voted for Bush......TWICE. I no longer believe in his agenda. But that does NOT mean I do not support our troops. Our troops are a special breed of people. It's too bad that our "commander in cheif" is taking advantage of that fact. Our troops serve our country diligently...trusting their leader to lead them in their endeavers. They're trained to do so. I ADMIRE THESE PEOPLE. I also would like to have that same admiration for our leader. But when his agenda isn't in the best interest of those soldiers or the rest of us...it's our duty to ask questions.



The Isam nation ( extremists ) are raised to die for their cause. They are trained to be martyrs and it's a priviledge to die in battle...there are 72 glorious virgins awaiting them on the other side.

[zapatista]

...But when his agenda isn't in the best interest of those soldiers or the rest of us...it's our duty to ask questions.

How is honoring our commitment to help the Iraqi people rebuild their country not in our best interest?


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[150thBucktailCo.I]

...But when his agenda isn't in the best interest of those soldiers or the rest of us...it's our duty to ask questions.

How is honoring our commitment to help the Iraqi people rebuild their country not in our best interest?


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The thing to do in our best interest is show the Arab/Islamic population that we (the US) is attempting to help them help themselves. Either we work to "fix" what is humanely broken (and whether Bush or Saddam broke it is entirely another debate) in the Arab states, or instead of battling thousands of terrorists, we'll be fighting millions.

And personally, I'd rather we fight them over there, too.

[DonkeyHoagie]

Irrelevant content removed

[My2Cents]

I absolutely refuse to get into the discussion of "politics." Non of us know what all is happening behind the scenes... only the powers to be know that and we must, no matter what, trust in what they are doing is the right thing. We must always keep in mind that our men and women are over there fighting for our freedom and they are doing things over there right now that we could never imagine in a million years.
The enemy wants to kill us... they want us destroyed. They have been after us for many, many years... a lot of it started way back with Gadolphi in Libya (spelling) and also started with the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut. There is a lot of reasons why... however, we need to stay on top !!! Always rember that freedom is not free... we take our freedom for granted mainly because we don't know any different... we have no idea what it would be like to live under a dictatorship. Look what happened in WWII with Hitler.... same thing was happening in Iraq and it was only in it's early stages compared to how far along the Nazis got.
We all need to step back and take a lesson from history. War has always been won by breaking the will of the people... this is exactly what the terrorist"s strategy is designed to do. They are trying to break the will of the American people and we cannot afford to let this happen.
The old saying... "united we stand, divided we fall" plays a very important role here.
I don't like throwing in quotes but I believe that this is so very, very true from Winston Churchill... he said the following "If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival.
There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to parish then to live as slaves."
We do not want to happen in our country what has happened in other countries throughout history. Let's keep the faith, keep the hope alive folks... it's costing us money, this is true, however, we are there we cannot afford to pull out now. For whatever reasons.... For God and country we have to perserver....

[Something to say]

...But when his agenda isn't in the best interest of those soldiers or the rest of us...it's our duty to ask questions.

How is honoring our commitment to help the Iraqi people rebuild their country not in our best interest?


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Hmmm... Like I said earlier... I must be stupid. If our purpose in being over there is to help rebuild their country...then I'm way off base. I thought we sent soldiers into a hostile environment and I'm pretty sure this is being called "war." I didn't realize we went into Iraq as a good deed. I guess I can ask you the same question...how is honoring our commitment to help the Iraqi people rebuild their country in our best interest ? We are trillions of dollars in debt...and correct me if I'm wrong...but those oil rich countries aren't giving us a break in return for the good deeds.

I never saw Michael Moore's film either. I know nothing about Michael Moore. I only know that 9/11 rocked our world ... it made me think of how very fortunate we've been. For the first time ever, with the exception of Pearl Harbor...our security was shaken. People in this country came together...United and Ready for whatever else may come. Of course we all wanted revenge. I was terrified when we learned that they were producing weapons of mass destruction and I guess I was so caught up in our little world away from the rest of the world... that I was clueless that other people detested us for our way of life. Say what you will...that fact remains. Rebuild their country ... all is well I suppose. Deplete this country of all its resources...then sit back and watch how they repay us for our "good deeds". PERIOD.. I'm done.

[zapatista]

Hmmm... Like I said earlier... I must be stupid. If our purpose in being over there is to help rebuild their country...then I'm way off base.
I thought we sent soldiers into a hostile environment and I'm pretty sure this is being called "war."

You're right this is being called a war. However, that technically ended in April 30, 2003 when our military successfully completed its invasion. Since then we've been in a period of occupation and reconstruction. Unfortunately our efforts have been hampered by foreign jihadists who's goal is to destabilize the country by attacking our military and inciting sectarian violence amoung the Iraqi populace. To give you some perspective, after World War 2 the occupation of Germany lasted until 1955 when the military governors were finally replaced by civilian high commissioners.

I didn't realize we went into Iraq as a good deed.

You're right. We didn't. We went in to pre-emptively stop a rogue state from deploying weapons of mass destruction.
Keep in mind that this was a regime that over the previous 3 decades:

• - Repeatedly attacked its neighbors
  - Started the first Gulf War
  - Used chemical weapons on it's neighbors and its citizens
  - Rewarded the familes of Suicide Bombers with cash prizes
  - Thought pretending it had a nuclear bomb was a full proof deterent.

I guess I can ask you the same question...how is honoring our commitment to help the Iraqi people rebuild their country in our best interest ?

Despite the fact that you never answered my question - I'll give it a shot.
Nature abhors a vacuum, but terrorists love it.
It provides them a base of operations where they can plan and prepare for the next attack on the Continental U.S. or Europe.
Establishing a stable government that's capable of maintaining order helps insure that Iraq will not become another safe haven for terrorists - like Afghanistan used to be.
Establishing an ally in the region gives us more flexibility in dealing with other regimes like Iran and Syria.
Honoring our commitment to rebuild Iraq and eliminate the terrorists within it's borders sends a clear message to the Islamists.
No matter what you do, we won't quit until the job is done and you're nothing but a bad memory.

We are trillions of dollars in debt...and correct me if I'm wrong...but those oil rich countries aren't giving us a break in return for the good deeds.

Our allys in the region have actually increased oil output over the past few years.
Todays oil prices are being driven by speculators and traders, the same folks who brought you the internet and real estate bubble.

I never saw Michael Moore's film either. I know nothing about Michael Moore. I only know that 9/11 rocked our world ... it made me think of how very fortunate we've been. For the first time ever, with the exception of Pearl Harbor...our security was shaken. People in this country came together...United and Ready for whatever else may come. Of course we all wanted revenge. I was terrified when we learned that they were producing weapons of mass destruction and I guess I was so caught up in our little world away from the rest of the world... that I was clueless that other people detested us for our way of life. Say what you will...that fact remains. Rebuild their country ... all is well I suppose.

Deplete this country of all its resources...then sit back and watch how they repay us for our "good deeds".

I don't think we should be naive enough to believe that Iraq or any other country will treat us well because of our 'good deeds'.
They'll treat us well because a powerful ally is preferable to a powerful and determined enemy.

[150thBucktailCo.I]

Very well put, Zapatista.

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