disgruntled tax payer

[billbeck]

Over this past weekend I attended a family dinner with my brother and sister-in-law, niece and nephew, both students at Tyrone. Laughter and story telling around the dinner table quickly turned into a heated political discussion. My niece stated that students from the high school were bused to the Barak Obama rally held at Penn State University at the end of March. I am outraged that our public school tax dollars were used to support a political candidate. If it was done as a promotion of our civic duties as citizens there would have been a bus organized to attend former president Bill Clinton's speech at Penn State Altoona (you don't get more civic than a former president), and there will be a bus organized to attend a John McCain rally if he would come to the area (I doubt there would be any organization of that). Based upon what my niece said, it was done as a way to totally support Obama. Public school tax dollars should not be used to support political candidates regardless of party affiliation. I agree that this is an excellent opportunity for real life learning, but it should not come through the pockets of tax paying citizens and it should not be entirely one sided. There are definitely alternative ways to pay for the trip; fund raise, charge, or privately pay for the trip, but do not use tax dollars!

[Luke]

This was a once in a lifetime opportunity for kids to experience democracy. Your comments are a part of democracy too and I see your point but also see the value of this field trip. I agree take kids to whatever of these kind events in which they can participate as learners of democracy. Congratulations to the adults who made this possible.

[banksy]

Over this past weekend I attended a family dinner with my brother and sister-in-law, niece and nephew, both students at Tyrone. Laughter and story telling around the dinner table quickly turned into a heated political discussion. My niece stated that students from the high school were bused to the Barak Obama rally held at Penn State University at the end of March. I am outraged that our public school tax dollars were used to support a political candidate. If it was done as a promotion of our civic duties as citizens there would have been a bus organized to attend former president Bill Clinton's speech at Penn State Altoona (you don't get more civic than a former president), and there will be a bus organized to attend a John McCain rally if he would come to the area (I doubt there would be any organization of that). Based upon what my niece said, it was done as a way to totally support Obama. Public school tax dollars should not be used to support political candidates regardless of party affiliation. I agree that this is an excellent opportunity for real life learning, but it should not come through the pockets of tax paying citizens and it should not be entirely one sided. There are definitely alternative ways to pay for the trip; fund raise, charge, or privately pay for the trip, but do not use tax dollars!

Where should the money have come from?

[Leep]

I have to agree, in principle, with Banksy. All that he mentioned is correct..
It will, or would be interesting, if the same effort will/would be made for McCain...

Regardless of the intentions, the outcome is that public funds were used for this, and I can assure you that there are people who do not agree with Obama's principles and would not appreciate their hard earned money being spent in this manner without some reciprocity. I.E. making the same opportunity available to those that want to see McCain...

I don't have a dog in the hunt because i don't live back there anymore, but fair is fair...

Leep:

[johnh373]

Luke,

I would have to agree ... as a matter of fact to balance out "democracy" they should learn about "community" as well !!! The greatist lesson I ever learned in this was through Mrs. Christines' help and support of the "Fresh Air" kids that used to come to her home and Tyrone in the summers from New York.

Yea ... since the High School sits pretty much empty all summer they could sleep in the gym and eat in the cafateria. The students could volunteer their summer vacation with them and the service organizations could go door to door to collect food from people to feed them as well.

That way the Tyrone kids will be prepared for the type of programs that Pres. Obama may implement for us in the future.

And if not, at least they will have a great experience and at the expense of the school budget supplied by taxpayers.

Since I'm a former resident of Tyrone, they're Kids where I live now that would love to experience this form of "Community and Democracy". I'll keep my eye on the forum for the dates of these events.

Thanks, JohnH373

[tfcammarata]

I am the Civics teacher that organized the trip to the Obama speech. I would like to respond to the original post questioning the motivation and purpose of this trip.

Below is the original request from March 11 that was made to the TASD board back in March. It clearly explains the reasons for this trip and I think will dispel any misconceptions that anyone might have as to the motivations for it.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

To: Tyrone Area School Board

Date: March 11, 2008

RE: Field Trip Request


As I’m sure you are already aware the Pennsylvania primary election will occur on April 22. Over the next several weeks it is very likely that the Democratic and Republican candidates for President may visit our area, perhaps several times in that span.

I think it would be a fine educational opportunity for students to attend a presidential campaign event and doing so would fit nicely into the Civics curriculum.

Therefore I would like to ask the board to give advance permission to organize a trip to anywhere in the Altoona or State College area if the opportunity arises to attend a candidate event.

Mr. Yoder has informed me that he could provide funding for the buses.

Unfortunately, unlike a traditional field trip I cannot at this time give specifics on time and place because these events are almost always announced on short notice.

I also think it’s important for me to point out to you and to the public that I will attempt to make arraignments for students to attend any candidate event without prejudice toward specific party or candidate. I think that regardless of one’s political beliefs it is of great educational value to respectfully consider all of the candidates who are running.

Thus I want to make it clear that the purpose of this trip is to educate students on the election process and engage them in the issues, not to push one party or candidate over another.

My plan is to get permission slips from the students on file so that when these events are announced I can make the arraignments as soon as I know the specifics of the event.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

As you can see from the request, my intentions are purely educational and completely non-partisan. Had the rally been for Sen. McCain or Sen. Clinton, I would have scheduled the trip just the same. My intention was (and is) to provide our students with every opportunity that I can to see the political process in action.

I also think it’s important to note that I received no extra pay for sponsoring this trip and the two other district employees that chaperoned the bus also gave up almost ten hours of their weekend, unpaid, to provide this opportunity for our students. Students were responsible for their own food and no expenses other than the bus were paid for by the school district.

By my recollection, the last time a major party Presidential candidate visited our area was in 1992 when then candidate George H.W. Bush visited State College. I think it was a golden opportunity for students to see this and I am very grateful that the School Board and the administrators at our school were willing to make it possible for our students to see such a historic event.


PS - I would also like to respond to the criticism that we did not sponsor a bus to see former President Bill Clinton appearance in Altoona. There were three factors that made attending this event impractical:

First, unlike the outdoor Obama rally, former President Clinton’s appearance was a limited seating event (less than 2,000 seats) and since advance tickets were not available, I could not guarantee admittance for our students.

Second, the event was scheduled with only about 48 hours advance notice and occurred during the school day which would have required students to miss classes to attend.

Third, because of budget concerns, I made a determination that I would limit my requests to the actual candidates themselves and not their various surrogates.

Also, just today I learned that Sen. Clinton will be holding a rally in State College on Sunday night. Unfortunately because today is Friday it was not possible for me to schedule a bus, distribute and collect permission slips and secure chaperones on such short notice. Given a couple of more days notice, I would have tried to organize a trip for that event as well.

I’m sorry for the lengthy post, but I wanted to set the facts straight on this and clear up any controversy regarding this matter.

Thank you.

[150thBucktailCo.I]

:thumb:

And thank you for responding to the public inquiry!

[Bill Latchford]

I personally would like to thank Mr. Cammarata for how much hands on he gives to his class. I think it can be hard sometimes to find teachers that are so enthusiastic about teaching. Not because they don't want to teach, I think more that it is that they are frustrated with the system not allowing them to teach they way that may be most effective. I know we see Mr. Cammarata's students at our Council meetings and they look genuinely enthusiastic about his class. I feel that what he did with organizing this field trip is a perfect opportunity for these children to learn about the different democratic issues. Even if they don't get to see both candidates personally, they have something to compare it to. Way to go teacher, keep up the great work. I feel a teacher is one of the most important professions. What more could we want for our children than to have them look up to a great teacher. :thumb:

[Leep]

I have read the response from the teacher.. On the surface it seems pretty benign and may be just what he says it is. I have no personal knowledge of either this gentleman or his intentions.
Now, for a few of my impressions..
If in fact future events unfold like he asserts, that is, there will be the same opportunity's offered to the students if and when a republican makes an entrance onto the scene, then I have no quarrel with the event.(s)

I am pretty certain however, and am certain that others may share this feeling, that this will not happen.. I would be amazed if Senator McCain made a stop in Pennsylvania.(anywhere)
He's a pretty smart fellow and i am sure he is aware that spending precious resources and time in an area that he has little chance to win, will not be very high on his agrenda..

if i have figured this out, I'm pretty sure someone who deals with this subject matter on a daily basis would come to the same conclusion....

I simply cannot see how students will be educated on the "Issues" as democrats are well aware by now where the democratic candidates stand. There isn't a modicum of difference between Obama and Clinton.
Before someone takes issue with this, I am a registered democrat and have voted democratic almost exclusively all my adult life.
I applaud your desire to have your students view the political process, but again, the certainty that they will be viewing only one side of it looms large...
Again, If Sen. McCain does make a stop anywhere close to Altoona or St. College, i will be glad to tender my apology...I have been wrong in the past and history has shown that I am prone to repeat that from time to time...
This is not an indictment of any kind and i believe your intentions are honorable and your desire to enlighten your students is commendable..
My only concern is that I fear the chances for your students to ever hear the "Other" side are slim to none and perhaps if that holds true, you could present the other side sometime in class.
I agree that it would not be as exciting as a personal experience, but perhaps, just perhaps, there are one or two conservatives scattered about your class, unbeknown to you..and to be fair, they should be taken into consideration...
Personally, some of my fondest memories are of one or two teachers that somehow saw something in me they felt was worth exploring or nurturing.. And, if I have had any success in my life, it is because someone cared enough to make an extra effort to show they had a little faith in me.
I am certain that you must certainly have a few that you have helped along the way and i have the greatest respect and regard for you people that work so hard to prepare the youth of today for what they will experience and become tomorrow.
it is usually a thankless job and I wish that i had expressed my gratefulness for all they had done for me.. From the first grad to the twelfth and onto and through college, my life has been enriched by these people, our teachers...

Take care.
Leep:

[Luke]

Hey Teacher,

You did a good thing there for kids and democracy. This too can be used as a lesson in how public decisions are percieved by the general publc and how they shape policy. Too, this shows the strength of our democracy as you initiated a global discussion on a project which seemingly appeared to be a short lesson in Civics.

Good job...keep up the good work.

:flag:

[banksy]

Leep, you amaze me. It's like you say "I don't mean to say you're ugly, but you really aren't attractive." Are you on the Board of Directors of the Simon Cowell Fan club.

[Rick]

I don't normally participate in many of the online discussions, I merely keep them in check. But I would like to thank Mr. Cammarata for logging in, and posting with us.

Thank you, personally.

Rick

[Leep]

Hey Banksy, I resemble that remark...
Yeah, sometimes it's tough to criticize without stepping on anyone's toes...Specially if you're a nice guy ..like me...

I do, however stand by one observation. While i agree that it is a good thing to do this for the kids, I also still believe that If someone like myself can make the observation that there is very little likelihood there will ever be the opportunity to personally take the kids to see a republican so that another view can be seen and heard, then there should be some accommodations made in class to present the opposite side..
At least, that is what i was taught as i went through the Tyrone school system..
I understand that was back in the sixties and , in my opinion, a much better time, but i remember my teachers to this day and how and what i was taught.
I guess you have to take in account that they, the teachers , were from another time, one that held a different set of values than they do today.
As far as i am concerned, the fifties and sixties were the best we had to offer and pretty much everything went downhill and pretty much to h*ll after that.

Not to infer that there aren't still good, decent people around anymore, but it certainly is harder to find them anymore..
Just my opinion, for what it's worth...

Leep:

[Harlow]

In this primary season in PA, McCain isn't campaigning in PA. He has the nomination, so why bother.

There is a chance for McCain to campaign in PA and Tyrone students to see him.

It is probably pretty easy to bring Civics to the Classroom. Both Reps Stern and Fleck are very community oriented as is Sen Eichelberger. I bet Todd could contact their local offices and when they aren't in session, possibly bring them to the Classroom.

Just an idea, but then again, what do I know.

Harlow

[Leep]

Ah, I'm probably making a mountain out of a molehill.... ...if I remember correctly, politics wasn't very high on my list of interesting things to do.
From what I have seen lately, due mainly to the internet, young people are showing much more interest now than ever before, so in retrospect I have to agree with the teacher. At least those that have an interest will get a chance to see them in action and up close and personal...
Kind of like seeing a zoo in a magazine and going to see one in person...
So carry on good sir....

Leep out;