Any comment on the article below?
Anybody know what insecticide they're thinking of using on Tyrone municipal watershed land?
Council tables decision for gypsy moth spraying on watershed property
By KRIS YANIELLO
Staff Writer, Tyrone Daily Herald
April 22, 2008
Tyrone Borough Council made the decision at last night's regular meeting to hold off on its decision to spray the gypsy moth population on the borough's nearly 4,000 acre watershed property on Ice Mountain.
Council received its lowest bid for the gypsy moth spraying from Ag Air, LLC out of Dover, PA for a price of $120,388.80. The borough has set aside $125,000 in its budget for the spraying if council decides to move forward with the project.
Councilperson Steve Hanzir was quick to question the rest of council on the necessity to spray the watershed property. He doesn't feel the gypsy moth spraying is warranted because of the amount of forest that is actually on the entire watershed.
"It's covered with fern," said Hanzir. "It does need work to revitalize the watershed, but there has to be something there to save before we start saving stuff."
Hanzir thinks that the $120,000 would be much better spent downtown clearing away brush from the edge of the river to help with flood control.
"Since we can't dredge the river, we can do something to help the businesses downtown," added Hanzir.
Council wants to discuss further with the borough's forester, Paul Noll, about the severity of the gypsy moth problem and what the effects would be if the borough didn't spray the gypsy moths, before the borough spends that much money on it.
Noll will be asked to attend the borough’s May 5 work session to discuss the gypsy moth issue in detail to council.
Hanzir said that the biggest problem he has with spraying chemicals to kill off the gypsy moths is the fact that the spraying will be done around and in the watershed, although council was told the chemicals have no harmful effects.
"I know the guy said it's safe enough to drink, but I'll believe that after he has a glass of it," said Hanzir.
Ice Mt gypsy moths
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banksy
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Re: Ice Mt gypsy moths
My guess is that they would use Dipel Thuricide as it is labeled as being safe to use around water for Gypsy Moth control I am wondering if over the years the attempt to control the Gypsy Moth has caused the decline in bee population. Has anyone heard if this could be a cause of the bee decline?
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Bill Latchford
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Re: Ice Mt gypsy moths
I do not recall the name of the product, but according to the Forester it is safe for watershed areas and such. I think I recall him saying you could drink it but it is not recommended...LOL
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SoccerMom
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Re: Ice Mt gypsy moths
PA DCNR uses Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) in its gypsy moth spraying program, which I believe is what Ag Air is proposing. Bt is nonchemical and is supposed to affect only leaf-eating caterpillars. The bacteria is sprayed on the tree's foliage and remains effective for about a week. Caterpillars ingest the bacteria when they feed on the leaves. However, it does not kill all of the caterpillars and those surviving may still cause significant defoliation. In addition, some people may experience mild skin, eye or respiratory tract irritation, but effects are usually mild. Still don't think I'd drink the stuff though!
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anne onimous1
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Re: Ice Mt gypsy moths
It's not safe....don't drink their kool-aid.
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anne onimous1
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Re: Ice Mt gypsy moths
Could the council please inquire as to what the inert, secret ingredients are in dipel bt?
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Bill Latchford
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Re: Ice Mt gypsy moths
We just voted on this last night...I have no idea what it is but it is safe for water sheds. :thumb:banksy wrote:My guess is that they would use Dipel Thuricide as it is labeled as being safe to use around water for Gypsy Moth control I am wondering if over the years the attempt to control the Gypsy Moth has caused the decline in bee population. Has anyone heard if this could be a cause of the bee decline?
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anne onimous1
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Re: Ice Mt gypsy moths
You don't know what it is but you know it's safe? 
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Bill Latchford
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Re: Ice Mt gypsy moths
I am not a chemist, but the Forester said it is safe around water, Banksy apparently has heard it was safe around water. Her is a definition I found when I Googled it:anne onimous1 wrote:You don't know what it is but you know it's safe?
- Thuricide Name given to a living culture of Bacillus thuringiensis which is harmless to man but kills insect pests. Known as a microbial insecticide. Used to treat certain foods and fodder crops to destroy pests such as corn earworm, flour moth, tomato fruit worm, cabbage looper, etc. The bacillus is mass-produced and stored like a chemical.
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SoccerMom
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Re: Ice Mt gypsy moths
Bt produces natural protein insecticides that have been used by organic farmers for five decades. On the other hand I found this on the Sierra Club Canada's web site:
http://www.sierraclub.ca/national/progr ... heet.shtml
B.t.
Bacillus thuringiensis Fact Sheet
General
Bacillus thuringiensis (B.t.) is a biological pest control agent. A living bacteria that occurs naturally in soil, B.t. produces poisons that cause disease in insect larvae. B.t. is sprayed in cities and forests, and is commonly used by organic farmers on crops with pest problems. Common targets include mosquitoes, black flies, gypsy moths, spruce budworms, and beetles.[1]
One of the traits that initially favoured B.t. over synthetic pesticides was its selectivity: different subspecies of the B.t. bacteria affect different insects. B.t. has over 19 subspecies, and 5 are used commercially: kurstaki in forest pest control, israelensis for mosquitoes and black flies, and aiyawai, morrisoni, and san diego in crop production.[2] This specificity is also important because it makes B.t. of low toxicity to humans.
Unexpected “Inert” Dangers
During a 1992 B.t. spraying program for gypsy moths in Oregon, a woman suffered from joint pain and neurological symptoms within 45 minutes after being exposed to the spray. She had a pre-existing allergy to a carbohydrate that was present as an inert ingredient. [1]
However, low toxicity does not mean no toxicity, and there are important reasons why B.t. should be used with caution. B.t. bacteria should not be confused with genetically engineered B.t. crops such as B.t. corn. These crops are designed to give off the B.t. toxin from every single cell of the plant. They therefore emit a relatively large amount of B.t. into the environment, which has been shown to kill non-target species such as butterflies. B.t. bacteria, on the other hand, do not pose a significant threat to non-targets when sprayed directly onto crops or into catch basins.
How It Works
Like many other bacteria, B.t. forms spores – highly resitant, resting forms that protect the bacteria in tough environmental conditions. However, B.t. is unique in that it forms protein crystals along with its spores. This protein is the source of B.t.’s toxicity.[3] When the target insect larva eats a B.t. spore and its protein crystal, the protein dissolves in its gut and produces a toxin. The toxin interferes with food digestion, and the insect starves to death. The insect can also die from infection when the bacteria multiply and escape the digestive tract, travelling into the rest of the body. [4]
Like other larvicides, B.t. is effective because it interferes with regular insect life-cycles. Applying B.t when insects are at their larval stage prevents them from developing into mature adults which are able to reproduce. In contrast, B.t. has no significant effect on adult target insects.
Toxicity
B.t. is of low threat to humans because it does not persist in the digestive tracts of mammals. Classified as “slightly toxic,” the most common side-effects are skin and eye irritation.[5]
Inert Ingredients
While exposure to the B.t. bacteria may pose little threat to human health, the effects of “inert” ingredients included in B.t. products are cause for concern. Preparations of B.t. usually contain chemical additives such as emulsifiers, wetting agents and surfactants to improve product quality. Considered trade secrets by manufacturers, they are often not listed on the label.[6]
Inert ingredients are potentially the most toxic component of B.t. products. Chemicals used as B.t. inerts include sodium hydroxide, which can damage the upper respiratory tract, sulphuric and phosphoric acid, recognized as being corrosive, and sodium sulfite, known to cause nausea, diarrhea, lowered blood pressure, hives, shock, and loss of consciousness in sensitive individuals.
Effectiveness
In general, B.t. is effective if applied in sufficient quantities to target populations in the larval phase. However, in the case of mosquitoes, the sites that are actually targeted by spraying programs may not be the most likely breeding reservoirs for the mosquitoes that bite people. For example, the most common breeding site for pest mosquitoes is old tires. Prevention methods such as encouraging individuals to roll, cut, or cover old tires may be more effective than pesticide use in general.
Resistance to B.t. can limit the larvicide’s effectiveness. Initially the complexity of Bt’s mode of action was thought to prevent insects from developing resistance. However lab and field studies done on at least eight insects have proven this theory wrong. To make matters worse, the development of genetically engineered B.t. crops could dramatically increase the number of B.t.-resistant insects. Since they will greatly increase the amount of B.t. toxin in the environment, the evolution of toxin-resistant pests will be strongly encouraged.[7]
Fate in the Environment
The persistence of B.t. in the environment depends on various factors, including sunlight, humidity, and soil conditions. While most of the applied B.t. persists only a short time, small amounts may remain active on soil particles, on the underside of leaves, and on sediments in the water column. B.t. spores can remain dormant for years, while active bacteria can survive in the environment for months.[8]
Ecological Effects
B.t. may be considered ‘safe’ by some because it poses little direct threat to human health. In all actuality, B.t. has significant effects on ecosystems. By killing non-target invertebrates such as caterpillars, B.t. reduces the food supply of fish, and birds, and predatory insects. The food chain can be severely impacted if these predators either starve or shift to alternate prey.[9]
While B.t. may be more specific to target insects than its chemical counterparts, all B.t. products kill at least some non-target species. Beneficial insects are of particular concern; some insects that actually help control pests can be adversely affected. For instance, the number of flies that prey on aphids, a collard-eating pest, was observed to have decreased following B.t. application.[10] B.t. can also kill endangered species of butterflies along with lepidopteron pests.[11]
Conclusions
Although Bt is less toxic to mammals and shows fewer environmental effects than many other synthetic insecticides, it is not ‘safe’. B.t. should only be used after all other methods of prevention have been used, only when entirely necessary, and in the smallest quantities possible.
http://www.sierraclub.ca/national/progr ... heet.shtml
B.t.
Bacillus thuringiensis Fact Sheet
General
Bacillus thuringiensis (B.t.) is a biological pest control agent. A living bacteria that occurs naturally in soil, B.t. produces poisons that cause disease in insect larvae. B.t. is sprayed in cities and forests, and is commonly used by organic farmers on crops with pest problems. Common targets include mosquitoes, black flies, gypsy moths, spruce budworms, and beetles.[1]
One of the traits that initially favoured B.t. over synthetic pesticides was its selectivity: different subspecies of the B.t. bacteria affect different insects. B.t. has over 19 subspecies, and 5 are used commercially: kurstaki in forest pest control, israelensis for mosquitoes and black flies, and aiyawai, morrisoni, and san diego in crop production.[2] This specificity is also important because it makes B.t. of low toxicity to humans.
Unexpected “Inert” Dangers
During a 1992 B.t. spraying program for gypsy moths in Oregon, a woman suffered from joint pain and neurological symptoms within 45 minutes after being exposed to the spray. She had a pre-existing allergy to a carbohydrate that was present as an inert ingredient. [1]
However, low toxicity does not mean no toxicity, and there are important reasons why B.t. should be used with caution. B.t. bacteria should not be confused with genetically engineered B.t. crops such as B.t. corn. These crops are designed to give off the B.t. toxin from every single cell of the plant. They therefore emit a relatively large amount of B.t. into the environment, which has been shown to kill non-target species such as butterflies. B.t. bacteria, on the other hand, do not pose a significant threat to non-targets when sprayed directly onto crops or into catch basins.
How It Works
Like many other bacteria, B.t. forms spores – highly resitant, resting forms that protect the bacteria in tough environmental conditions. However, B.t. is unique in that it forms protein crystals along with its spores. This protein is the source of B.t.’s toxicity.[3] When the target insect larva eats a B.t. spore and its protein crystal, the protein dissolves in its gut and produces a toxin. The toxin interferes with food digestion, and the insect starves to death. The insect can also die from infection when the bacteria multiply and escape the digestive tract, travelling into the rest of the body. [4]
Like other larvicides, B.t. is effective because it interferes with regular insect life-cycles. Applying B.t when insects are at their larval stage prevents them from developing into mature adults which are able to reproduce. In contrast, B.t. has no significant effect on adult target insects.
Toxicity
B.t. is of low threat to humans because it does not persist in the digestive tracts of mammals. Classified as “slightly toxic,” the most common side-effects are skin and eye irritation.[5]
Inert Ingredients
While exposure to the B.t. bacteria may pose little threat to human health, the effects of “inert” ingredients included in B.t. products are cause for concern. Preparations of B.t. usually contain chemical additives such as emulsifiers, wetting agents and surfactants to improve product quality. Considered trade secrets by manufacturers, they are often not listed on the label.[6]
Inert ingredients are potentially the most toxic component of B.t. products. Chemicals used as B.t. inerts include sodium hydroxide, which can damage the upper respiratory tract, sulphuric and phosphoric acid, recognized as being corrosive, and sodium sulfite, known to cause nausea, diarrhea, lowered blood pressure, hives, shock, and loss of consciousness in sensitive individuals.
Effectiveness
In general, B.t. is effective if applied in sufficient quantities to target populations in the larval phase. However, in the case of mosquitoes, the sites that are actually targeted by spraying programs may not be the most likely breeding reservoirs for the mosquitoes that bite people. For example, the most common breeding site for pest mosquitoes is old tires. Prevention methods such as encouraging individuals to roll, cut, or cover old tires may be more effective than pesticide use in general.
Resistance to B.t. can limit the larvicide’s effectiveness. Initially the complexity of Bt’s mode of action was thought to prevent insects from developing resistance. However lab and field studies done on at least eight insects have proven this theory wrong. To make matters worse, the development of genetically engineered B.t. crops could dramatically increase the number of B.t.-resistant insects. Since they will greatly increase the amount of B.t. toxin in the environment, the evolution of toxin-resistant pests will be strongly encouraged.[7]
Fate in the Environment
The persistence of B.t. in the environment depends on various factors, including sunlight, humidity, and soil conditions. While most of the applied B.t. persists only a short time, small amounts may remain active on soil particles, on the underside of leaves, and on sediments in the water column. B.t. spores can remain dormant for years, while active bacteria can survive in the environment for months.[8]
Ecological Effects
B.t. may be considered ‘safe’ by some because it poses little direct threat to human health. In all actuality, B.t. has significant effects on ecosystems. By killing non-target invertebrates such as caterpillars, B.t. reduces the food supply of fish, and birds, and predatory insects. The food chain can be severely impacted if these predators either starve or shift to alternate prey.[9]
While B.t. may be more specific to target insects than its chemical counterparts, all B.t. products kill at least some non-target species. Beneficial insects are of particular concern; some insects that actually help control pests can be adversely affected. For instance, the number of flies that prey on aphids, a collard-eating pest, was observed to have decreased following B.t. application.[10] B.t. can also kill endangered species of butterflies along with lepidopteron pests.[11]
Conclusions
Although Bt is less toxic to mammals and shows fewer environmental effects than many other synthetic insecticides, it is not ‘safe’. B.t. should only be used after all other methods of prevention have been used, only when entirely necessary, and in the smallest quantities possible.
-
SoccerMom
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Re: Ice Mt gypsy moths
In the US, EPA regulates label requirements for pesticides. EPA does not require pesticide companies to list inert ingredients, only the percent of the product that is comprised of inert ingredients, which are sometimes more toxic than the active ingredients. That's why its important use a pesticide only when its needed, and to read the label and follow the directions carefully when applying.
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banksy
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Re: Ice Mt gypsy moths
Like he said, he doesn't have to be a chemist to know the details of how to vote as a council member. I suspect, and Bill can confirm, that the contract they sign/signed with whoever does the spraying will require a number of things, such as a requirement that all herbicides and pesticides will be used by or under the direct supervision of a licensed applicator and will be used in accordance with the standards and regulations set forth by the State and/or Federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the appropriate state and local regulatory agencies. They probably also require that the contractor should be familiar with the property and how existing conditions will affect its work during the service phases of their agreement. It may even go so far as to stipulate that the materials used are being used in a watershed and as such the contractor ensures that agents are safe in that environment.anne onimous1 wrote:You don't know what it is but you know it's safe? :roll:
If there are expectations that council members need to know the specific chemicals used at the time they post on this forum, then your probably asking too much. I am sure Bill heard the chemical name at the meeting and just didn't have it in front of him at his home computer. He probably didn't feel like going to look it up, which I don't blame him. I'm surprised he even opens himself up to a lot of the negative comments he takes on here. He performs a truly thankless job. The guy has lived in Tyrone his entire life, do you really think he is on council because it is a financial gain or an ego boost. He's doing you all a favor.
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anne onimous1
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Re: Ice Mt gypsy moths
I asked the question regarding the inert, secret ingredients in dipel bt knowing that he would be meeting with the contractor. What is the difficulty in asking? He shouldn't be too busy to ask a question about an issue that affects so many.
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Bill Latchford
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Re: Ice Mt gypsy moths
One thing to keep in mind this is not a private job....We had our Forester and a representative from DCNR at the meeting to fill us in on why we needed to spray when we spray for the Gypsy Moth. There are only certain times that they are effective on them. The rep. from DCNR said this is the same product they use for their spraying and the same that the County is using for their spraying, so from this we can ascertain that it is safe for us to use. I still have no clue what the stuff is, but I also have no clue on what some of the ingredients of a Snickers bar is also, but I still eat it. This is why the Borough pays a Solicitor, Engineers, Foresters, and all the other experts, to help us make the decisions that effect our community. We really do our best to educate ourselves on as many matters as possible, but there is no way I can learn about a product that is going to be sprayed over our water shed in 3 days. That is where we trust the people we hire to take care of these types of ordeals. Take care and thanks so much for the interest... :thumb:
Re: Ice Mt gypsy moths
I saw thousands of GM Caterpillars on Sunday. They are about 1/4 inch long. Though many egg masses have not hatched yet. If the turbines go in the watershed it could be really interesting doing the app in the future from the air. Dicey flying to say the least! I would bet on a big price increase!